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Author Topic: European Prices  (Read 4676 times)
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balsam0
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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2010, 10:01:13 AM »

GSS Gear arent responding currently on their email or here on their forum. Did they shut down or something?

Keep in mind they are a EST based time zone.  I would assume they have hours from 9 am - 8 pm which would be 2 pm - 1 am in London.
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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2010, 10:01:13 AM »

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G8rRanger
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« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2010, 12:44:24 PM »

I lived over there long enough and it's worse now than it was then.  Welcome to the cost of maintaining an "enlightened" European social model and all the salaries of EU bureaucrats who add what value to society?.  This is like the $3500 added to the cost of each US car due to maintaining a bloated union benefits and pension plan for retired workers.  Guess how much your gasoline or beer is priced above market value due to government add-ons and taxes?  Europeans pay out the nose for just about everything at a much higher cost than we do for a similar product here, often to pay the costs passed to the companies of a social support system that is more extensive than anything we have, though many here wish our government did more as well.  Somebody has to pay for that!.  They are a shadow of a market-driven country or "unuion".  Think about that the next time you hear people complain about evil Wal-Mart.
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« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2010, 11:30:19 PM »

I wonder if the European batches are subject to better quality controls? Let's hope so given such high prices!
The answer would be no, although perhaps my pair was imported from the states and sold to me. (thinner sole defect)
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pedro
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« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2010, 08:20:13 AM »

Hi all. I'm new here. I live in Holland, EU and I travel a lot in Europe.

Sales taxes in European coutries differ but are on average I think 18% or so. A 100% ++ price difference is therefore outrageous. I guess Vibram is trying to market these shoes in Europe as a "premium" thing.


Off topic: in response to G8rRanger: many things are better and less expensive in Europe. In Italy, for very modest prices you have icecream and food of a quality I have never seen in the USA (my experiences in USA-restaurants is that they serve ridiculous quantities of food with no taste at all). Mobile phones (with freedom - no forced package deals or dataplans here). Beer and cars, the same thing -  would you really compare US beer (Miller, Bud) to Dutch, German or Czech beer? Would you compare a GM-car to European cars such as BMW, Porsche, Audi, Alfa Romeo, Volvo or Ferrari? Etc etc. If the European system were so bad as G8rRanger says, the European coutries would not consistently be in the top-10 richest countries of the world, and in the top 10 of countries with the best quality of life.  Sorry to defend my continent  Grin
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 08:32:25 AM by pedro » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2010, 08:20:13 AM »

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G8rRanger
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« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2010, 08:40:17 AM »

I hope I didn't imply that Europe sucks and everything US is great.  Not my intent and not what I believe.  We were talking COST of GOODS, not quality.  Pedro is right that I shouldn't make broad comparisons. Note too that my point RE beer, etc had NOTHING to do with quality of goods.  A reverse so-so example is why US cigarettes cost SO MUCH more than they do internationally.  It is because we apply a huge "sin tax" to them that artificially raises their cost here.  It's one way we pay for our government and their assorted enterprises. So we pay more for the same thing others do not.  He's right that there are some things there that just don't compare to a US equivalent and for no more or less than what we pay here.  If I implied otherwise, I apologize.   Nevertheless, the cost of maintaining a large social structure, in comparison to the US, has an overall inflationary effect on the cost of goods and services and that added cost does not correlate to the value of the items sold nor to the quality. The added cost of an EU bureacracy that contributes nothing to the economies of the Union is another drain.
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pedro
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« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2010, 01:48:01 PM »

Hi G8rRanger,

Thanks for the reply and for clearing up things Smiley  You are right in that our tax system makes many goods more expensive than in the USA (and let me be clear that we hate taxes as much as everybody else, although high quality public schooling, inexpensive colleges and universities, affordable healthcare and care for elderly people are nice. Guess you can't eat a cake and have it!)

An other important factor is that you guys have one big national market, which drives prices down. Whereas we  have smaller national markets with less economies of scale. You have one Walmart, we have maybe 10 national mini-walmart, which will be more expensive!

But - the case of Vibram is extreme. A >100% mark-up.......what are they thinking? It's a good thing there are webshops who sell internationally!  Smiley
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« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2010, 12:05:16 AM »

Great exchange, Pedro.  Good luck find V5Fs for less!
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pedro
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« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2010, 08:40:42 AM »

Hi Ranger  Smiley   I just wanted to add that there are many things in the US that I like a lot: the tolerance, the individual freedom, the possibilities for start-up companies etc. Plus the great landscapes (Rockies, Grand Canyon, Florida Swamps, the woods in the north-west), the nature parks, some of the big cities, the music culture, movies,  and even  Wink some cars - Corvette  Grin for instance. In an ideal world we would have the US low taxes and freedom plus the EU pensions, education and so on. And even then - would it work? There is a joke in Europe, that an ideal Europe would consist of German railways and Italian lovers, but somehow we ended up with Italian railways and German lovers  Grin Grin   (no offense to germans and italians  Smiley Smiley Smiley  )

No let's find these VVF  Smiley
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G8rRanger
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« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2010, 11:07:36 AM »

Pedro, no, it wouldn't work.  Complex systems defy controls.  States gravitate to controls unless they are held back by laws that ensure the liberty of the citizens.  States seek only to perpetuate themselves...laws have no needs.  They simply exist.  As long as they exist for the good of the citizen, they should be supreme. 
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hinogi
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« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2010, 12:33:23 PM »

I had a look at the german vibram shop, it seems the bikila and speed will be available by the mid of march, and they only cost twice as much as in the USA Tongue
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G8rRanger
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« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2010, 02:15:57 PM »

Dennis Boyles note in NROs "The Corner" Blog today: 

The cover story in last week's issue of Le Figaro Magazine nailed France’s dilemma pretty well: "Taxes: A Very French Folly." The piece, a darkly humorous take triggered by the publication of a new book by former taxmaster Robert Matthieu, itemizes France's latest goofy "special" taxes — 20 new ones in the last couple of years alone, on everything from lobsters to USB sticks — and the 450 loopholes that came with them.

After 60 years of rule by self-serving élites who represent a spectrum of political views from the crazy-left all the way to the center-left, France finally has taxed itself into paralysis. During Chirac's administration, if you totaled all the taxes a French citizen paid, from VAT (Value Added Tax) to taxes on fresh air, you were looking at a burden of around 70 percent. Sarkozy's no Reagan; taxes are still monstrous.

French taxpayers are out of money, and the Sarkozy cabinet, which has even more énarques in it than Chirac’s did, is out of good ideas. All they have left to work with is bad ideas, and nearly all of them have to do with taxes. In France, there's no more money for public spending and monetary policy has been outsourced to Brussels. So, "tax is virtually the only tool of economic policy that remains in the hands of politicians," as Nicolas Jacquot, a former budget minister, tells the magazine.

In other words, "tax it" is apparently the limit of governmental imagination in France. Worse than "freeze it," maybe, but not nearly as good as "cut it."

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« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2010, 07:53:41 AM »

The best 'beers' are real ales, here in good ol' blighty.

Just to clear that up   Grin

This topic could easily take an interesting turn...every time I see the word 'freedom' thrown about I have to exercise self control.
France may have high taxes, but they quite possibly have the best lifestyle and standard of living in the world.
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hinogi
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« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2010, 10:42:17 AM »

The best 'beers' are real ales, here in good ol' blighty.

Just to clear that up   Grin

This topic could easily take an interesting turn...every time I see the word 'freedom' thrown about I have to exercise self control.
France may have high taxes, but they quite possibly have the best lifestyle and standard of living in the world.
Thats not quite right, for europe it would be Norway I guess. Don't have all the recent studies in mind but the last time it was Norway.
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pedro
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« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2010, 05:50:41 AM »

The best 'beers' are real ales, here in good ol' blighty.

Just to clear that up   Grin

In England they drink warm beer without foam - Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
 
now where is that puke-smiley ?  Grin  Grin Grin
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« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2010, 11:25:06 AM »

The best 'beers' are real ales, here in good ol' blighty.

Just to clear that up   Grin

This topic could easily take an interesting turn...every time I see the word 'freedom' thrown about I have to exercise self control.
France may have high taxes, but they quite possibly have the best lifestyle and standard of living in the world.
Thats not quite right, for europe it would be Norway I guess. Don't have all the recent studies in mind but the last time it was Norway.

It depends on which study you go by. The HDI index lists Norway as number one. However the Quality of Life Index lists France as number one. Hence my 'quite possibly'. I will take the HDI, as I am going to move to Norway...  Grin
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