BirthdayShoes.com Vibram Five Fingers Forum
July 22, 2014, 06:38:41 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Tired of seeing ads? Simply become a forum member and login (membership is free!).

nanny-rosy
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
  Print  
Author Topic: How to Correct a Bunion - Naturally  (Read 135452 times)
0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
orlin03
Sr. Member
****

Reputation: 6
orlin03 is starting to look familiar.orlin03 is starting to look familiar.
Posts: 332



View Profile WWW
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2009, 10:13:03 AM »

BTW, do you think barefoot running would be more effective at straightening out the toes than barefoot walking? I can't help wondering whether the extra movement somehow promotes greater separation between the toes.

Barefoot Down Under

I think that sprinting and hill running do the most for spreading the toes, but like Toastergirl says, it's a lot harder on the feet. Still, I don't think you'd have to go far to get the benefits. A short jog followed by three 50 m sprints two or three times a week could be enough to get the process going.
Logged

BirthdayShoes.com Vibram Five Fingers Forum
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2009, 10:13:03 AM »

 Logged
Barefoot Down Under
Newbie
*

Reputation: 1
Barefoot Down Under is a new face.
Posts: 24


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2009, 06:50:16 PM »

My apologies! It was actually ZeitHeld who suggested wearing Correct Toes to bed, not toastergirl. Sorry for the confusion.

Barefoot Down Under
Logged
Barefoot Down Under
Newbie
*

Reputation: 1
Barefoot Down Under is a new face.
Posts: 24


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2009, 10:40:16 AM »

OK, I went and bought myself some VFF's and some Correct Toes toe separators. While the Correct Toes are still in transit, the VFF's have arrived and fit almost perfectly. However, my reaction towards the VFF's is very mixed. In some ways, they are better than going barefoot; while in other ways, they are worse. Here's a list of all the things I like and dislike about wearing VFF's compared to walking completely barefoot, in the hope that you can give me some guidance as to which is better for me. Sorry for making such a lengthy post, but I have many questions that need to be answered.


Why going barefoot is better than wearing VFF's:

1.   Although the sole of VFF's is very thin (just 2mm), it still blocks much of the sensory information that could be obtained by going completely barefoot. Even if this lack of sensory awareness is the result of wearing sturdy sports shoes for most of my life, it doesn't change the fact that people who go completely barefoot can feel a lot more of the ground beneath their feet than those who wear VFF's. Then again, those who wear VFF's can still feel a lot more of the ground beneath their feet than those who wear study sports shoes or even thongs.

2.   VFF's do not let the soles of the feet breathe. Sweat builds up inside them, making them mildly uncomfortable. While I could try wearing socks with my VFF's, I don't think this would work because I've noticed recently that even wearing socks with my regular sports shoes is not enough to solve the sweat problem (at least in summer). Considering how many sweat glands we have on the bottoms of our feet, and the need for that sweat to evaporate quickly, I really can't understand why anyone would want to wear shoes at all (myself included). While I appreciate the idea behind VFF's in protecting the feet from injury and allowing them to function normally, they still suffer from one defect that all other shoes suffer from - they create a moist environment that allows bacteria to breed uncontrollably and make your feet and shoes STINK!!!!!

Although I haven't encountered this problem with my VFF's yet, the fact that it could crop up at any time makes me very reluctant to wear VFF's for an extended period of time. Furthermore, I do not have the time or the money to wash my VFF's more than about once a week. And in this weather, I doubt that once a week would be enough. While VFF's are great for getting people used to walking barefoot, I hardly see them as a long term solution (unless you walk or run on very harsh terrain). I should also mention that not only would wearing toe socks with VFF's fail to solve the sweat problem, they would be far too much bother to put on in the first place.

3.   Wearing VFF's in public would probably attract a lot more attention than simply going barefoot. Despite being an extrovert, I would absolutely hate to have strangers come up to me while I'm shopping to ask questions about my feet. While bare feet may attract attention, they certainly won't cause people to come over and interrogate me. I'm a busy person, and do not have time to waste trying to explain to people why I would want to wear shoes that allow the toes to move independently. While others have a right to be curious, I also have a right to be left in peace.

4.   Going barefoot helps to toughen up the soles, which makes them more resistant to damage. It increases one's independence by eliminating their need for shoes. People who can walk comfortably without shoes have one less need than those who cannot.


Why wearing VFF's is better than going barefoot:

1.   VFF's not only help the toes to spread, but they also nudge them into the correct alignment. I have good reason to believe that VFF's would help to correct the bunion on my right foot, but no such evidence that walking completely barefoot would have the same effect. While such may be achieved by walking barefoot during the day and wearing Correct Toes at night, this probably wouldn't be as effective as wearing VFF's during the day and wearing Correct Toes at night. In other words, it would be much more difficult for me to get rid of my bunion if I did go completely barefoot.

2.   My bunion looks ugly. While VFF's cover the bunion and make it less noticeable, walking barefoot would completely expose the bunion for all to see. I would hate to walk around barefoot until I've noticed a significant improvement in the alignment of the toes on my right foot. The only people who look good when walking barefoot in public are those who don't have any foot deformities.

3.   Wearing VFF's makes you look rich, whereas going barefoot makes you look poor. I live in a very well-educated, affluent area, where most people are too concerned about their social status to even be seen barefoot. It's difficult enough just trying to get them to wear shorts instead of trousers. While there don't seem to be any rules against being barefoot in public in my area, I get the impression that it's frowned upon for being "hippie" and uncivilised. To date, the only people I've even seen walking barefoot in public in this area are children and sometimes older youth; I have never seen anyone over the age of 25 do it here. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if there were many people in my area who want to go barefoot in public, but simply don't have the guts to do it. Why is everyone so afraid to show just a little bare skin?

4.   VFF's allow you to walk on hot surfaces, and give your feet more protection than going completely barefoot. However, since regular barefooting helps to toughen up the soles, I doubt this would be a long term problem. If one walks correctly and takes adequate precautions while barefooting, they would only need VFF's in extreme situations. Nevertheless, this is still an advantage that VFF's have.


So here's the list of questions I have for you:

1.   What percentage of sensory information do you think VFF's block out compared to going completely barefoot? Is it really as high as I think it is? Do you believe that the amount of sensory information you can obtain through the soles of VFF's increases over time? To what degree?
2.   What is the simplest, most cost- and time-effective way of solving the sweat / body odour problem with VFF's? I've read much information on this subject already, but have never been truly satisfied with the solution. I don't want to wear socks with my VFF's, nor do I want to wash them frequently. I'll only make a mess if I try to put powder in them, and I'd prefer not to use a spray-on deodorant because of all the chemicals in them. Furthermore, if I have gotten my feet dirty just before putting on a pair of VFF's, I would hate to have to go and wash them beforehand. I love getting my feet dirty, and would have absolutely no desire to wash them until taking my shower just before bed.
3.   How can I wear VFF's without drawing attention to myself? How can I stop strangers from coming up to me and asking about them?
4.   Can I still get rid of my bunion if I decide to go barefoot in public instead of wearing VFF's? Do you think it would be harder for me to get rid of my bunion if I went completely barefoot all the time than if I wore VFF's whenever I'm outdoors? Is there a way I could go barefoot all the time while still obtaining all the toe-aligning benefits of VFF's?
5.   How can I walk barefoot in public without drawing attention to my bunion or having people notice it?
6.   How can I find the courage to walk barefoot in public without worrying about what other people will think of me? How can I avoid being labelled as a "hippie"? Is there any way I could walk barefoot in public while conveying the message that I'm not poor without resorting to formal dress (minus the shoes)?
7.   How can I avoid being bitten by ants while walking through an ant-infested area?
8.   Is it possible to completely eliminate the risk of standing on a dirty syringe while walking barefoot, especially in grass or sand?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read and hopefully answer these questions for me. Your response is greatly appreciated.

Barefoot Down Under.
Logged
iain
Sr. Member
****

Reputation: 5
iain is starting to look familiar.iain is starting to look familiar.
Posts: 430


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2009, 12:30:00 PM »

So here's the list of questions I have for you:

1.   What percentage of sensory information do you think VFF's block out compared to going completely barefoot? Is it really as high as I think it is? Do you believe that the amount of sensory information you can obtain through the soles of VFF's increases over time? To what degree?
2.   What is the simplest, most cost- and time-effective way of solving the sweat / body odour problem with VFF's? I've read much information on this subject already, but have never been truly satisfied with the solution. I don't want to wear socks with my VFF's, nor do I want to wash them frequently. I'll only make a mess if I try to put powder in them, and I'd prefer not to use a spray-on deodorant because of all the chemicals in them. Furthermore, if I have gotten my feet dirty just before putting on a pair of VFF's, I would hate to have to go and wash them beforehand. I love getting my feet dirty, and would have absolutely no desire to wash them until taking my shower just before bed.
3.   How can I wear VFF's without drawing attention to myself? How can I stop strangers from coming up to me and asking about them?
4.   Can I still get rid of my bunion if I decide to go barefoot in public instead of wearing VFF's? Do you think it would be harder for me to get rid of my bunion if I went completely barefoot all the time than if I wore VFF's whenever I'm outdoors? Is there a way I could go barefoot all the time while still obtaining all the toe-aligning benefits of VFF's?
5.   How can I walk barefoot in public without drawing attention to my bunion or having people notice it?
6.   How can I find the courage to walk barefoot in public without worrying about what other people will think of me? How can I avoid being labelled as a "hippie"? Is there any way I could walk barefoot in public while conveying the message that I'm not poor without resorting to formal dress (minus the shoes)?
7.   How can I avoid being bitten by ants while walking through an ant-infested area?
8.   Is it possible to completely eliminate the risk of standing on a dirty syringe while walking barefoot, especially in grass or sand?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read and hopefully answer these questions for me. Your response is greatly appreciated.

Barefoot Down Under.

Wow, some of these questions seem impossible! Though many caused by social paradoxes, and many answered by trying out for yourself. VFFs are amazing shoes, but not perfect.

1. Its hard to quantify sensory input,  it's best to see for yourself. And you can could categorize all the different types of senses coming from the foot; temperature, texture, shear force, pressure force. VFFs would affect these to different extents. And would you increase you sensory awareness? I think so, but it depends how aware you were before trying VFFs.

2 This is a big problem, how big, depends on your attitude towards this. I see it as part of laundry, there's always time if you are willing. I could suggest the nuclear option Tongue: Expose your VFFs to ionizing radiation to kill any bacteria, its how surgical tools are sterilized and the VFFs won't get radioactive either. Tricky to find a nuclear reactor that is willing to sterilize your VFFs

3 I find bare feet attracts more attention than VFFs. Any attention is usually positive, and if you don't have time you can quote "birthdayshoes.com" and be on your way.

4 I don't think many people have tried VFFs to improve bunions, something to try out for yourself. I definitely wish you the best of luck Smiley

5 Get some standard shoes, remove sole and put them on. Looks like you have shoes from the top, but nothing below  Wink

6 I thought you were an "extrovert"  Tongue Still if people stare then smiling and saying good morning will show that you are reasonably sane. I personally don't think one should worry about what other people think, plus you could say its healthy for the feet.

7 VFFs, or avoid ant-infested areas.

8 No its impossible to do 100% elimination, all you can do is minimize risk and keep it in perspective. Watching where you walk, avoid long grass, wear some protection like VFFs etc

Hope this helps, but don't just take my word for it. Try for youself and hope you enjoy your VFFs!  Smiley
Logged

"Eternity is very long, especially towards the end." Woody Allen
BirthdayShoes.com Vibram Five Fingers Forum
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2009, 12:30:00 PM »

 Logged
ZeitHeld
Hero Member
*****

Reputation: 14
ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.
Posts: 945

And so Antaeus returns, wiser for the wear.


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2009, 12:33:46 PM »

I think the big thing is that FiveFingers are millions of times better than normal shoes. However, if you are fine without wearing shoes entirely, then you have less of a reason to wear FiveFingers. In this situation, your FiveFingers are best off as the shoes you wear when you have to wear shoes. Basically, the point in a pair of VFFs is to get you close to barefoot when you can't be, so barefoot is inherently better if you can be.

As far as the specific questions you asked, I just get the impression that you see some of the problems we take to be secondary as being primary. So I'm going to answer them in the way I deal with the same problems, though they may not be directly helpful to you.

1. I compare VFFs to shoes rather than to being barefoot, so I think of it as gaining a ton of sensory perception, rather than losing some from being barefoot. The majority of the perception you lose are the details and comes from having even the thinnest layer of anything over your feet. FiveFingers still retain the rest of the perception though, which is more the lay of the ground and the material, as opposed to details and textures.
2. I just don't have a problem with the sweat thing. Sweat bothered me when I wore socks and normal shoes, and they simply don't in my FiveFingers. The only real thing I do for the odor is to wash them every few weeks.
3. Again, I don't have a privacy issue, and while the number of people who stop to talk to you in public with FiveFingers is higher than without, it's still a relatively small number.
4. I have little to no experience with how bunions work. You are the first person I've heard of trying to tackle bunions with VFFs.
5. I don't think you can. It comes down to how comfortable you are with yourself. I don't put much stock in what people think.
6. I don't think of barefoot as directly conveying poorness. If you are well dressed and clean otherwise, nobody will think you are poor. Here again, I just don't care what people think.
7. Wearing FiveFingers.
8. This isn't really a problem you can "fix". You can avoid it by keeping your eyes open, but you pretty much have the same chance stabbing your foot in FiveFingers as in normal shoes. I think this is just another problem that doesn't really have a solution.
Logged

twitter.com/derekofbavaria
facebook.com/derek.beyer
Rana
Global Moderator
Superstar
*****

Reputation: 24
Rana thinks they know everything about birthday shoes.Rana thinks they know everything about birthday shoes.Rana thinks they know everything about birthday shoes.Rana thinks they know everything about birthday shoes.Rana thinks they know everything about birthday shoes.Rana thinks they know everything about birthday shoes.Rana thinks they know everything about birthday shoes.Rana thinks they know everything about birthday shoes.Rana thinks they know everything about birthday shoes.
Posts: 1873



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2009, 03:13:08 PM »

Okay, this is perhaps not the most tactful thing to say, but reading all that tired me out.

I get the desire to scope out a new purchase from multiple angles before plunking down the cash - I do that myself - but this sounds like you're spending far more time fretting about "might bes" and not enough time just wearing the VFFs and seeing for yourself what does and doesn't work.

Put them on.  Walk around in them.  Either you'll like the experience or you won't.  Don't make it more complicated than that.
Logged

All an octopus needs to trap a human is a door with three knobs.

Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/56809170@N00/sets/72157622338419245/
Gallery: http://sungazer.zenfolio.com
Hawkeye
Superstar
******

Reputation: 28
Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!
Posts: 2313


I go barefoot, but my dog wears shoes.


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2009, 03:22:54 PM »

Okay, this is perhaps not the most tactful thing to say, but reading all that tired me out.

I get the desire to scope out a new purchase from multiple angles before plunking down the cash - I do that myself - but this sounds like you're spending far more time fretting about "might bes" and not enough time just wearing the VFFs and seeing for yourself what does and doesn't work.

Put them on.  Walk around in them.  Either you'll like the experience or you won't.  Don't make it more complicated than that.

I totally agree. Try them and if you don't like them well then sell them, but you're spending way too much time thinking about them.
Logged
Barefoot Down Under
Newbie
*

Reputation: 1
Barefoot Down Under is a new face.
Posts: 24


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2009, 02:14:16 AM »

Sorry once again for making such a long post, but this is a real struggle for me. I can't help noticing that there's a strong social pressure to wear shoes in public places, and that even some of my friends and family members would look down upon those who do otherwise. Do you really think that I want to risk being condemned by those who I love and care about most? I care very much about my relationships with other people, and do not want to put them in jeopardy. Nevertheless, we are also free and independent beings, and have the right to live as we please.

I don’t believe that walking barefoot in public will ever become the norm, but to anyone familiar with the Myer-Briggs personality type indicator, that should not be surprising. I strongly believe that the desire to go barefoot is very closely related to one’s personality, and that those who frown upon the practice do so because their own personality doesn’t allow them to appreciate it. There’s nothing wrong with wearing shoes; nor is there anything wrong with going barefoot. However, the education system tends to be a lot more hostile towards people whose personalities are most conducive to going barefoot.

That’s why your boss will have such a hard time trying to understand why you would want to go barefoot everywhere, and why he’ll tell all his employees that they must also wear shoes. And since there’s always a small chance you could run into your boss at the local shopping centre, no-one’s game enough to take their shoes off there, either. After all, it might affect your next promotion. He’ll probably give that job to someone else who always wears shoes in public, and they’ll eventually become your new boss. While the risk of missing out on a promotion for being seen barefoot in public is extremely low, I suspect that for many people it’s very real.

I agree that we all need to be much less self-conscious and not worry about what other people will think of us if they see us barefoot in public. Like many wanna-be barefooters, my heart tells me that in order to be completely human, I have to feel the ground beneath my feet. Not just some of the time, but all of the time. But to do that requires a mental toughness that I’m still trying to find. And yes, I will just have to put up with people asking about my VFF's / bare feet. There's simply no way around it.

Personally, I like the attraction of going completely barefoot. It would give me more sensory information than wearing VFF’s, make my soles tougher, and allow my soles to breathe properly so sweat can escape. However, I doubt it would be as effective at correcting my bunion as wearing VFF’s would. VFF’s make the toes point straight, even if they’re not naturally inclined to do so. Going barefoot would allow my toes to stay in their current, deformed position. What is it about VFF’s that allow people to reduce the size of their bunions? Is it something common to both VFF’s and regular barefooting, such as the separation of the toes, or is it something unique to VFF’s, such as the alignment of the toe pockets? Do you know anyone with bunions who’s noticed a significant improvement in them after they stopped wearing regular shoes and started going completely barefoot all the time?

Thanks once again for your help.

Barefoot Down Under.
Logged
Hawkeye
Superstar
******

Reputation: 28
Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!
Posts: 2313


I go barefoot, but my dog wears shoes.


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2009, 04:19:38 AM »

Just get some VFFs already and see for yourself if your bunions correct themselves. Bunions don't seem to be a big problem here on the boards and you seem to be beating this topic to death. Sheesh!  Undecided

Shoes are required mainly for liability purposes since this is a sue-happy country (US). Also there some nasty stuff out there since people aren't as clean/neat as they used to be.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 04:21:52 AM by Hawkeye » Logged
ZeitHeld
Hero Member
*****

Reputation: 14
ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.
Posts: 945

And so Antaeus returns, wiser for the wear.


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2009, 05:12:06 AM »

Yeah, while I think there's something in the whole VFF phenomenon, and I'm not a big believer in the idea that things can be over-thought, this is too much.
Logged

twitter.com/derekofbavaria
facebook.com/derek.beyer
Hawkeye
Superstar
******

Reputation: 28
Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!
Posts: 2313


I go barefoot, but my dog wears shoes.


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2009, 05:15:59 AM »

Yeah, while I think there's something in the whole VFF phenomenon, and I'm not a big believer in the idea that things can be over-thought, this is too much.

LOL Zeitheld, that has to be one of the worst phrased sentences I've seen today. Wink I'll just chalk it up to late night posting. I had to read it 3 times to firgure out what you were trying to say, but then again I'm pretty tired.  Smiley
Logged
ZeitHeld
Hero Member
*****

Reputation: 14
ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.
Posts: 945

And so Antaeus returns, wiser for the wear.


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2009, 05:18:24 AM »

Sorry, I write how I speak, with many clauses. Rereading it, I don't see the confusion, but if you say so.
Logged

twitter.com/derekofbavaria
facebook.com/derek.beyer
Hawkeye
Superstar
******

Reputation: 28
Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!Hawkeye has spent way too much time on birthday shoes!
Posts: 2313


I go barefoot, but my dog wears shoes.


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2009, 05:23:51 AM »

Sorry, I write how I speak, with many clauses. Rereading it, I don't see the confusion, but if you say so.

Do you also split your infinitives?  Smiley I'm guessing you're not an English major. Wink

Clauses are confusing and hard to follow late at night. Stringing them togther like a beaded necklace should be avoided.
Logged
ZeitHeld
Hero Member
*****

Reputation: 14
ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.
Posts: 945

And so Antaeus returns, wiser for the wear.


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2009, 05:35:29 AM »

I actually just feel like doing whatever I want with the english language (you see what I did there?). For example, I fight the idea that there is a wrong place to put my prepositions at. (Both split infinitives and ending sentences in prepositions are highly debated in the english community, though the second has more of a case)
Logged

twitter.com/derekofbavaria
facebook.com/derek.beyer
iain
Sr. Member
****

Reputation: 5
iain is starting to look familiar.iain is starting to look familiar.
Posts: 430


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2009, 09:03:58 AM »

Let us know how you get on, you say you've already have VFFs and they fit well.

To put the bunion thing in perspective: Considering how they are caused, I think it's good to try out alternative ways to cure them, like removing the possible cause, before doing something drastic as surgery.
Logged

"Eternity is very long, especially towards the end." Woody Allen
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!