BirthdayShoes.com Vibram Five Fingers Forum
September 18, 2014, 05:43:29 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Tired of seeing ads? Simply become a forum member and login (membership is free!).

nanny-rosy
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6]
  Print  
Author Topic: Our VFF has been pirated/cloned? I'm pissed about this!  (Read 14507 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ZeitHeld
Hero Member
*****

Reputation: 14
ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.ZeitHeld is making a name for themselves.
Posts: 945

And so Antaeus returns, wiser for the wear.


View Profile
« Reply #75 on: February 26, 2010, 03:09:32 AM »

Quote
Of course if they offer the same product at lesser price, who am I to complain, consumers have a choice. Given that Treks are going to sell in the UK for around an absurd 170, I'm all for choice. Kangaroos are a pest in Australia these days, we cull them...a bit of 'roo leather and rubber is not worth anything like that much.

In fairness and although the European prices are clearly a kick in the balls (aren't all European prices?), a lot more cost goes into Vibram's than just raw materials. They have to pay for the designers, testers, marketers, rent, cleaners, the molds, someone to answer the phones, website designer, someone to respond to emails, patent, patent laywers, and loads of other people I can't even contemplate...The list goes on and on. Years of study probably went into designing these shoes and a lot of prototypes were probably made at great cost until we got the shoe we have today.

It's never just sale price [-] cost of raw materials + factory workers = profit. But for the counterfeiters it sure is. I would guess they make more money than vibram themselves especially seeing the price they want to sell the knock offs for. They have no overhead. The actual cost to them to produce the shoes is probably less than $2. I bet Vibram is even paying for the electricity bill for the machines to run.

It's like as if you spent loads of time and money building an orchard, having spent years creating a new strain of sweet delicious hybrid apple, planting the trees, tending to them, watering them etc and then the people you employ to pick your apples by day, sneak in at night and steal apples to sell themselves. The townsfolk wouldn't go 'oh, these guys can pick me apples a little cheaper than what I have to pay the people who built and own the orchard - They've been ripping me off, I'll just buy apple from their workers.' Everyone would be aware they were purchasing stolen merchandise.

Also Vibram puts a lot of its profits back into their business - you can see that with the new designs they bring out every year. They are trying to grow a stable business - not an easy feet. If we want to see them create more interesting concepts, we have to support them. The Chinese won't be doing that. They just want the free ticket for the gravy train. In an ideal world Vibram would have their shoes manufactured in Europe but that is not going to happen any time soon as if they did, they would cost twice as much. In the long run, the lack of recognition of intellectual property in China will probably ruin China's own economy. No-one will want to spend money designing a product and doing all the donkey work because someone will just step in and rip them off and grab the profit. For now, it's mostly western businesses that get the shaft so the Chinese government just turns a blind eye but soon it will be China's turn and we'll be left with landfills of cheap broken plastic Chinese crap.


Precisely.
Logged

twitter.com/derekofbavaria
facebook.com/derek.beyer
BirthdayShoes.com Vibram Five Fingers Forum
« Reply #75 on: February 26, 2010, 03:09:32 AM »

 Logged
Atomicunderware
Full Member
***

Reputation: 2
Atomicunderware is a new face.
Posts: 117


Freaky Toes


View Profile
« Reply #76 on: February 26, 2010, 05:35:34 AM »

Quote
Of course if they offer the same product at lesser price, who am I to complain, consumers have a choice. Given that Treks are going to sell in the UK for around an absurd 170, I'm all for choice. Kangaroos are a pest in Australia these days, we cull them...a bit of 'roo leather and rubber is not worth anything like that much.

In fairness and although the European prices are clearly a kick in the balls (aren't all European prices?), a lot more cost goes into Vibram's than just raw materials. They have to pay for the designers, testers, marketers, rent, cleaners, the molds, someone to answer the phones, website designer, someone to respond to emails, patent, patent laywers, and loads of other people I can't even contemplate...The list goes on and on. Years of study probably went into designing these shoes and a lot of prototypes were probably made at great cost until we got the shoe we have today.

It's never just sale price [-] cost of raw materials + factory workers = profit. But for the counterfeiters it sure is. I would guess they make more money than vibram themselves especially seeing the price they want to sell the knock offs for. They have no overhead. The actual cost to them to produce the shoes is probably less than $2. I bet Vibram is even paying for the electricity bill for the machines to run.

It's like as if you spent loads of time and money building an orchard, having spent years creating a new strain of sweet delicious hybrid apple, planting the trees, tending to them, watering them etc and then the people you employ to pick your apples by day, sneak in at night and steal apples to sell themselves. The townsfolk wouldn't go 'oh, these guys can pick me apples a little cheaper than what I have to pay the people who built and own the orchard - They've been ripping me off, I'll just buy apple from their workers.' Everyone would be aware they were purchasing stolen merchandise.

Also Vibram puts a lot of its profits back into their business - you can see that with the new designs they bring out every year. They are trying to grow a stable business - not an easy feet. If we want to see them create more interesting concepts, we have to support them. The Chinese won't be doing that. They just want the free ticket for the gravy train. In an ideal world Vibram would have their shoes manufactured in Europe but that is not going to happen any time soon as if they did, they would cost twice as much. In the long run, the lack of recognition of intellectual property in China will probably ruin China's own economy. No-one will want to spend money designing a product and doing all the donkey work because someone will just step in and rip them off and grab the profit. For now, it's mostly western businesses that get the shaft so the Chinese government just turns a blind eye but soon it will be China's turn and we'll be left with landfills of cheap broken plastic Chinese crap.


Precisely.

Precisely indeed, I am aware of all of that. If that was reflected in the US pricing, then fair enough, but no matter how I break down the numbers, we over here are getting a raw deal, pure and simple. That being said I have found a few good US online retailers who have reasonable international shipping, so I am not going to be stuck without VFF's. My greatest fear is that Vibram prevent US sellers from shipping internationally...
Logged
orlin03
Sr. Member
****

Reputation: 6
orlin03 is starting to look familiar.orlin03 is starting to look familiar.
Posts: 332



View Profile WWW
« Reply #77 on: February 26, 2010, 10:01:20 AM »

Precisely indeed, I am aware of all of that. If that was reflected in the US pricing, then fair enough, but no matter how I break down the numbers, we over here are getting a raw deal, pure and simple. That being said I have found a few good US online retailers who have reasonable international shipping, so I am not going to be stuck without VFF's. My greatest fear is that Vibram prevent US sellers from shipping internationally...

Kind of sidestepping the topic to talk about European prices:

I get visitors from Europe in City Sports all the time trying to buy Uggs and expensive running shoes (like Nike Air Max 2009s, Asics Kinseis, or Newtons) for their friends back home. I find the whole thing with shoes in Europe costing more puzzling; I order other parts specifically from Europe because I save money.
Case in point: I am an avid bicyclist, and top shelf bicycle parts are not cheap. One day I found that, by shopping on the correct day (read: checking the web daily for good exchange rates), I could save tons of cash by ordering from British suppliers that ship for free. On my latest purchase, I needed a specific cassette (rear gears) that retails for $250; the cheapest I could get one for in the US was over $190- before shipping. I ordered it from Britain for $155, with free shipping!
So why do I not find deals like this where Vibrams are concerned?
Logged

Piemaster
Newbie
*

Reputation: 1
Piemaster is a new face.
Posts: 20



View Profile
« Reply #78 on: February 26, 2010, 06:50:15 PM »

It's never just sale price [-] cost of raw materials + factory workers = profit. But for the counterfeiters it sure is. I would guess they make more money than vibram themselves especially seeing the price they want to sell the knock offs for. They have no overhead. The actual cost to them to produce the shoes is probably less than $2. I bet Vibram is even paying for the electricity bill for the machines to run.

If the shoes cost so little to produce, why, given the Vibram european retail price not make them in europe? Yes, they will cost more but will it be double? - I can't see it.
There was a news item on the TV recently (here in UK) about a shoe manufacturer (think its New Balance) operating in the UK and looking to increase their production here. One reason cited by a manager being quality control and them not being much more to produce once shipping was taken into account. Surely Vibram would also be able to protect their property rights better than in some far-flung chinese factory and what is that worth to the company?
Logged
BirthdayShoes.com Vibram Five Fingers Forum
« Reply #78 on: February 26, 2010, 06:50:15 PM »

 Logged
rebekahk
Newbie
*

Reputation: 1
rebekahk is a new face.
Posts: 1


View Profile
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2010, 12:40:24 AM »

Well I've joined this conversation late in the game. I have not had a chance to read every thread about mupuks on this site, so if I am stating something that's already been said, sorry.

Now, I bought a pair of Mupuks..because they were beautiful. And guess what? they were made with Vibram soles. I did not assume something such as theft, but rather kept in mind that Vibram has made soles for other companies' shoes forever. Before fivefinger shoes, that's all they did. Fivefinger was their very first complete shoe.

Maybe Vibram knew about Mupuks even before we did, because they willingly supplied the soles? Maybe not, but it's a thought.  I sent the mupuks back because the size was wrong for me. they didn't have my size. the seller shipped quickly &  gave a fast, no hassle refund.

The fabric quality seemed about the same, if not slightly less than Vibram. Vibram offers a pitiful (and boring) selection of color choices for women's fivefingers. I have 3 pairs of solid black Vibrams (only these and the lavender classics appeal to me). If I can get those mupuks in my size, I am so having those leafy patterned FL1 &FL3's-- and doo doo on Vibram if they don't like it. They should have given me cuter options.  
Logged
crashnburn
Newbie
*

Reputation: 1
crashnburn is a new face.
Posts: 14


View Profile
« Reply #80 on: August 03, 2010, 07:58:59 AM »

Its human body. How can you copyright it? Im sure some caveman / jungle must've tied leather / cloth around their feet in such a manner.
Logged
zarzu
Full Member
***

Reputation: 3
zarzu is a new face.
Posts: 216



View Profile
« Reply #81 on: August 03, 2010, 09:21:29 AM »

there are no copyright issues here, this is about trademark infringement and patents. and no, vffs are not part of the human body, they aren't even replicating a function of the human body.
Logged

"first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
crashnburn
Newbie
*

Reputation: 1
crashnburn is a new face.
Posts: 14


View Profile
« Reply #82 on: August 03, 2010, 09:42:28 AM »

there are no copyright issues here, this is about trademark infringement and patents. and no, vffs are not part of the human body, they aren't even replicating a function of the human body.

Yes yes.. I'll change the words - Trademark, Patents.. etc.

Trademark - No one should use their name.

Patents - A huge number of American Pharmas keep trying to and keep patenting herbs & medicines that have a daily use & know how in India - esp Ayurveda.
They've filed and done so for Tulsi, Neem, Haldi (Turmeric). The only way this was prevented was that some alert/aware person in the Indian Government (who is lazy & corrupt) noted this and dug up ancient documentation that is pretty much HOUSEHOLD EVERYDAY knowledge.

Part of the assumption is that NO ONE EVER ANYWHERE IN HUMAN HISTORY.. made or wore such footwear? I digress.

I understand the need for Patents but not in a lot areas. Lot of them are exploitative and undue.

PS: If you created the newest cryogenic space rocket, I get it. But if you're patenting AIDS / Cancer drug for which the cure was KNOWN and existent in a HERB in some Amazonian rain forest.. then.. I am sorry.

Corporates will do anything to save their "so called" intellectual property but in the Onus of responsibility.. Nowhere to be found. There are tons of corporates doing tons of stuff in developing / 3rd world countries that would be considered ILLEGAL and has been banned in the US & Western world.

e.g. Medicines, Chemicals, Etc that are made, used, sold, dumped that have been banned and labelled as toxins.

I like the fact that VIBRAMS created a mass produced shoe that fits your foot like a glove. But dont tell me that some guy has a PATENT on GLOVES for your foot.

Its a NATURAL progression. Someone will create something that will FIT your ears or eyes very well... you cant patent that and prevent something from making something THAT FITS THE HUMAN BODY better. Hell.. it could be a special jock strap to cup your ..well.

Anyways.. I am new here so mean no harm or offense. Just another perspective from someone whose spent time inside Fortune 10,20s seen Corpporate Political Lobbies do what they want outside the western world.. and exploit the less privileged. .. Be it blood diamonds, latin american oil & vegetation exploitation (Dole).
Logged
zarzu
Full Member
***

Reputation: 3
zarzu is a new face.
Posts: 216



View Profile
« Reply #83 on: August 03, 2010, 11:55:41 AM »

yes there are a lot of problems with patents, but i really don't see how they have anything to do with the situation here. the first huge problem here is trademark infringement, which is simply fraud, there's nothing to discuss there. then all these shoes that we see look pretty much exactly like vffs, they are using sole molds from vibram factories afaik etc. the problem here is not some abstract patent like shoes with five toe compartments (there are even other toe shoes out now, or will be out shortly), the patents are for the vibram soles etc, just like there are patents on nike sole technologies. you're talking about patents that cover non-specific, trivial inventions, but that's not the issue here, just not.
Logged

"first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Dimon003
Newbie
*

Reputation: 1
Dimon003 is a new face.
Posts: 11


View Profile
« Reply #84 on: August 03, 2010, 11:34:12 PM »

This is actually not the first VFF fake we've encountered, though it is likely the best I've seen. I don't think that we need to worry in the case of a competitor, just take easy.... Huh
Logged
Griffin
Jr. Member
**

Reputation: 1
Griffin is a new face.
Posts: 84


The Convert


View Profile
« Reply #85 on: August 12, 2010, 12:53:50 PM »

I am pretty pissed too. I hate when people steal ideas... I was pretty upset to find all the regular knock-offs, but to clone them and call them by a different name... that's a bit much, don't you think?
Logged

barefoot by choice, runner by evolution.
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!