different softness of the soles

[gb]

Thanks all for looking into this.  My casual observation is also that the heels and mid-soles don't feel too different, and the thinness is mainly near the front end.  A caliper was exactly what I was hoping to get my hands on, but now Justin's done the thorough investigation for us.  Thanks!

I have to say I am loving the thin-toed classics a bit too much to give 'em back to Vibram (or anyone!)  but I fully agree that there is a long-term vs. short-term tradeoff...  I am being extra careful with them now and will mainly stay indoor.   

The defect list is a great idea too!

[iain]

I have "defective soles" on my right black KSO but not on my left. I noticed this a month ago. I'm still waiting for pictures from my friend... but i'll show when I get them

This is what my toe sole profile feels like. I dont think it's an extra 2 mm of sole on the bottom but the edges go up more. It lets more water in! And probably slightly less durability, but not by much.


*Update 8/1/2010* With a closer look I realize my diagram is misleading, I think there is not much of an edge as I described, just the glue that attaches the fabric to the sole. What is certain is that the sole is thinner all under, see my later post in this thread.

Hmm I think most of my VFFs are flat. I guess I'll wait to see a picture so I know exactly what you're referring to.

Here (finally) is the promised pictures. The big toes are typical of all the other ones.

[miriam]

Has anyone had success getting replacements, or at least confirmation of the issue, from Vibram?

I wore through my blue camo KSOs within about six months (at the bottom of the toes and top center of the ball of the foot). I wrote customer service to see if that was typical wear, but their initial response was "Kindly note there is a 90 day warranty on FiveFingers shoes" and then implied it was user error when I asked again how many miles I should expect to get out of them. Luckily I bought them from REI so I was able to exchange them. Now I'm noticing my new ones (black KSOs) are going to have the same issue. I'm glad I found this thread so I know I'm not crazy!

[DrBig74]

Has anyone had success getting replacements, or at least confirmation of the issue, from Vibram?

I wore through my blue camo KSOs within about six months (at the bottom of the toes and top center of the ball of the foot). I wrote customer service to see if that was typical wear, but their initial response was "Kindly note there is a 90 day warranty on FiveFingers shoes" and then implied it was user error when I asked again how many miles I should expect to get out of them. Luckily I bought them from REI so I was able to exchange them. Now I'm noticing my new ones (black KSOs) are going to have the same issue. I'm glad I found this thread so I know I'm not crazy!

I had a local shop send back a new pair of castle rock/navy Sprints that started to lose the sole after 5 minutes of running.  I asked the guy how long he thought it would take, and his reply was "good luck."
I hope that others have had a good experience with returns and warranties.

[gb]

I was able to return them with no problem, but no replacement has come thru (out of stock everywhere...) 

[Hawkeye]

I too finally returned my ksos without exchanging them since there was nothing to exchange them with and it's been 6 months. 

[sopo]

I've been away from the forums for a couple months so just finding this. I have mauve/sand classics and black kso's. The classics are noticeably thinner than the kso's. I thought they were supposed to be that way. I love mine thinner. They are more flexible and fit like a glove. The only bad I can find is walking on rocks/gravel is a bit more tricky in them. I've worn them a lot. Well, since I got them, I've worn my ff's exclusive except for a week after I broke my pinky toe. They both seem to be fine wearing them that much but I don't run so it's just daily wear, work and walking.

[gb]

yup. I kept  pair of thin-soled mauve grey too, and it does feel great.  on the other hand, my regular Classics feel equally great and glove-like.   So, given the choice, I'd prob still go for a regular 3mm pair. 

The main difference I've notice is that when wearing the thin-soled pair, the sole of my feet would feel very directly the wet/cold ground on a rainy day, not so much with my normal classics.

[Jimmy Hart]

i've got three pairs.  sprints, ksos, and classics.  my classics and ksos have the same thickness and my sprints are the thinnest.  my sprints are three years old so i measured at the tops of the toes and on the sides and they were still a lot thinner.  still for being what appears to me 1mm thick i have logged a lot of miles (more than i can count) and i have little to no signs of wear.  the thinner ones will be durable if you have good form and are not a foot dragger.  that will wear out any shoe faster than it should.  as for quality control it is frustrating but have you not ever bought something or even a shoe from say nike, or brooks and have it break down too fast, come apart at a seam, have it cut wrong and the toe box be crooked?  I know I have on many occasions and those too were all very expensive shoes.  These things happen and a good company will honor their product and replace it.  Vibram is a great company and have been very helpful to me in the past.  When the shoes are available they will swap them very quickly with little to no questions.  i would also place quality control as the reason they keep pushing back release dates.  I would bet they are making sure they send out good products with the new models.   

[breadeater]

Does anyone out there have the proper thicker soled version of the blue camo KSO's? I just received them direct from vibram and mine are unfortunately the thinner soled version of them. I emailed vibram before they were shipped explaining all about this problem but they just said that the problem didnt exist...

[Jimmy Hart]

i'm beginning to wonder if it does  i can see it being an easy miss in a factory if all they check is the siping depth.  justin pointed out earlier in this post that the sipes were the same depth even though the shoes were thinner.  if that's the measuring stick then the thin soles can sneak through. 

i wonder if the blue rubber doesnt become thinner when it dries than say the black does? 

[gb]

Does anyone out there have the proper thicker soled version of the blue camo KSO's? I just received them direct from vibram and mine are unfortunately the thinner soled version of them. I emailed vibram before they were shipped explaining all about this problem but they just said that the problem didnt exist...

yes I do have a pair of properly soled blue/camo KSOs.  I also just got a pair of Taupe/Grey that was thin soled, and an identical pair that wasn't (for a friend).  Perhaps I will take pictures of them so Vibram can see

[marley mission]

is thinner bad though? my blue cam ksos def feel thinner than my blacks and blk / oranges but i like that

[gb]

Not nec bad, but it's not as advertised.   So people should be able to return/exchange them.

I enjoy my thin soled classics, and find the thin soled KSO more comfy, more flexible, but since I use KSOs for work-out/running, I'd like them to last as long as they should.

anyway, here are two pairs of identical KSOs (1 pix), one with thin soles (1mm), one without (~3mms) as shown in 2nd pix.  Both brand new out of of the box, tags still on.   Hope this helps your case convincing Vibram the problem does exist!

[breadeater]

Thanks for the pics GB