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Author Topic: NYT - Lieberman study (forefoot striking)  (Read 444 times)
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qcassidy352
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« on: February 08, 2012, 11:30:11 AM »

Is this old news?  I just saw it for the first time today:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/08/why-runners-get-injured/

As Lieberman agrees, let's be clear - this doesn't say that barefoot is better (speaks only to foot strike, not shoe selection).  And it's a small sample size.  But a twofold greater risk of injury for heel strikers is pretty interesting.
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« on: February 08, 2012, 11:30:11 AM »

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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2012, 12:24:12 PM »

Nope it's a rehash but with more data.

Quote
No one is always a forefoot striker or a heel striker. Your form depends on many factors, including your speed, the terrain, whether you’re tired and so on. But most of us have a predominant strike pattern, and so it was with the 52 Harvard runners. Thirty-six, or 69 percent of them, were heel strikers, while 16, or 31 percent, were forefoot strikers. The proportions were similar regardless of gender.
...
All of the Harvard runners wore shoes, and most, as Dr. Lieberman says, “wore different shoes every day of the week.” Some ran in well-cushioned shoes and became injured, while others did not. Likewise for those who usually ran in minimal racing flats. Some got hurt; some did not. And forefoot striking, over all, was not a panacea. Many of the forefoot strikers were felled by injuries.


The problem is that forefoot striking is not sustainable. At long distances you will either midfoot or heelstrike (depending on shoe and your endurance).

Also look at http://www.runblogger.com/2012/02/vivobarefoots-barefoot-is-best-campaign.html

Transitioning to forefoot striking has its own problems, such as metatarsal stress fractures and achilles tendonitis.
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qcassidy352
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2012, 02:42:57 PM »


The problem is that forefoot striking is not sustainable. At long distances you will either midfoot or heelstrike (depending on shoe and your endurance).


Proof for that statement?
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2012, 04:14:53 PM »


The problem is that forefoot striking is not sustainable. At long distances you will either midfoot or heelstrike (depending on shoe and your endurance).


Proof for that statement?

I have read this over and over from marathon and ultra marathoners.  Eventually the body tires and form suffers.  Different levels of athletes will have a different breaking point.  If you train 5 k's you will likely falter if you run a 10k, Marathoners can keep it up for marathons but likely not for ultra's.  It depends on training, fitness, and repetition... just like most things athletic in life.
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2012, 04:14:53 PM »

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qcassidy352
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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2012, 04:33:16 PM »


The problem is that forefoot striking is not sustainable. At long distances you will either midfoot or heelstrike (depending on shoe and your endurance).


Proof for that statement?

I have read this over and over from marathon and ultra marathoners.  Eventually the body tires and form suffers.  Different levels of athletes will have a different breaking point.  If you train 5 k's you will likely falter if you run a 10k, Marathoners can keep it up for marathons but likely not for ultra's.  It depends on training, fitness, and repetition... just like most things athletic in life.

Ok, but then I don't think that qualifies as "not sustainable."  "Not sustainable when you exceed what your body has trained for," maybe, but that's an entirely different thing.  If I want to run 5ks and I can keep it up for a 5k, or I want to run marathons and I can keep it up for a marathon, then that's sustainable to the degree that I need it to be.

The fact that one might deviate from a forefoot strike is also accounted for in the results.  The part that acc quoted makes this exact point.  It may well be that nobody is a forefoot striker 100% of the time, and the subjects in this study are apparently not, either.  But there was still a two fold difference between the predominant forefoot strikers and predominant heel strikers - even though they did not stick to their predominant foot strike 100% of the time.

So how does this change the conclusion?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 04:35:10 PM by qcassidy352 » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2012, 11:19:04 PM »

It doesn't change the conclusion that forefoot striking is better for short distance sprint (i.e. speed), but that midfoot might be more suited for long distances.
Quote
When the researchers divided the finishers into groups of 50, they started to see something of a change in mid-foot landing as you moved further down the list. In otherwords, there was a higher percentage of midfoot strikers in the first 50 runners than in the second, and then third, and so on.
...
In otherwords, you naturally shift your contact point with the ground further forward when you run faster. The average speed, incidentally, of the first 50 runners was 3 minutes 3 seconds per kilometer. The second group of 50 runners averaged 3 minutes 10 seconds per kilometer. Hardly a big difference, but given the range (the 50th runner is at least a minute behind the 1st runner), is it possible that groups of 50 is too big, and that all this "finding" represents is a speed effect on footstrike?

The point is, this study does not allow you to differentiate between three possibilities:
Faster runners are midfoot strikers (could be co-incidence or some other cause); or
Midfoot strikers are faster runners (and therefore we should all change our running style and land on the front part of the foot more); or
All runners would eventually be midfoot strikers, if they just ran fast enough!
This is another classic example of how a scientific result can be taken out of context and applied to give advice that may not be 100% correct.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/04/running-technique-footstrike.html

Quote
What gives? The media tries to make things simple. They say that “mid-foot” or “forefoot” is better than rearfoot. I love reading running forums where people with way too much time on their hands armchair quarterback running styles. They look at a picture or video of a contact pattern of some guy running across the screen and say “wow – nice midfoot strike –that runner is efficient.” They don’t know who the runner is, or what his time was for the race. They just saw a foot strike and proclaimed him efficient. Then they’ll scroll down and see some picture or video of some guy heel striking and proclaim that he/she is an “in-efficient” runner based on the heel strike. This “in-efficient” runner might be an in-efficient runner. Or it might be Meb Keflezighi (a runner who is just a bit faster and more efficient and than most of your reading this post).  You see, these arm chair-quarterbacks aren’t very good at identifying efficient gait. Fancy force plates are. I do this for a living and still need data from my lab to give me the answer because no one can actually see forces. So what have we learned from these fancy force plates?  Its NOT rear-foot or midfoot or forefoot that matters – its where the foot contacts in relation to the body’s center of mass.
As I stated above, I picked some outliers just to make a point. It is true that for MOST runners, adopting a midfoot or forefoot gait style will lead to decreased loading rates. However, its not because the foot lands differently, its because a rear-foot style typically allows you to land with the foot farther in front of the body’s center of mass (over-striding). Switching to a contact style that moves the foot closer to the body’s center of mass usually means that we land closer to the font of the foot. But not always.

http://uvaendurosport.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/loading-rate-part-2-forefoot-midfoot-rearfoot%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6-who-cares/
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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2012, 02:58:43 PM »

It doesn't change the conclusion that forefoot striking is better for short distance sprint (i.e. speed), but that midfoot might be more suited for long distances.

The comparison was between heel and forefoot, and the runners studied were long distance xc and track runners, not sprinters.  And the conclusion was that forefoot strikers were significantly less likely to get injured, even accounting for the fact that "forefoot strikers" may not forefoot strike 100% of the time and "heel strikers" may not heel strike 100% of the time.

I realize that there is much more to be said (comparison to midfoot, comparison with ultra runners, larger sample size, barefoot vs. shod, etc. etc. ), but that doesn't mean that what has been said is unimportant or invalid.
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