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Author Topic: VFF Running  (Read 141589 times)
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noelbodwell
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« Reply #1605 on: August 05, 2010, 09:21:33 AM »



More seriously, wonder how long it would be until a marked decrease would be noticeable.

Cheers
J

I've read that for every two weeks of rest (no exercise at all) it takes one week to get back to prior fitness. I don't know if there's any scientific basis for that rule of thumb, but I've read it in several different publications.

Nice 4 mile trail run this morning which included a dip in Squam Lake at mile 3. Only 70į, but dew point was 70 as well!

NoŽl
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« Reply #1605 on: August 05, 2010, 09:21:33 AM »

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toastergirl
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« Reply #1606 on: August 05, 2010, 09:25:12 AM »

WOW! what a track workout last night.  As those that read my Ironman race report - and I think I posted that I am seeking vengance to that marathon by running another fall marathon.  So I spoke to my coach about either running a full marathon this fall or training for a 1/2 Ironman.  We thought that shooting for a fast fall marathon would be a good confidence booster for me.  i have not run a full marathon not in an ironman since NYC in 2005.  

So just being a little over a week and a half out from an ironman he gives me the following track session:  (ran in my bikilas)
1mi warmup. then 25 x 400 @ 2:00-2:15; 1min rest between 400s.  1 mi cooldown.  
The first few weren't bad - a bit too fast until I was able to settle in on what 2:00 pace felt like.  I was so used to going all out for my 400's that it was tricky to hold back.  

Just before half way through it just seemed like it was never going to be over.  Then I started joking with the guys that were playing a soccer game on the field at the track - and that made it more fun to be out there.   One of the guys was asking about my shoes..."hey! do you like those?"....YES! Love them!!"  

Then as I just passed the half way mark I started to eat and drink some more (hammer gel and endurolytes) and I got some more energy and finished up pretty strong.  I was surprised to see that I made every single interval. I think my slowest was a 2:13 and that involved fetching a out of bounds ball and throwing it back to the guys.  As I got to the last 7 intervals I knew I was going to make it and I think I actually picked up my pace.  I will have to write down my splits and see what the pattern was.  

It was one amazingly hard and long workout.  But at times I felt just like I was on auto pilot and it was hard to hold back.  Glad that I got through it and felt pretty strong.  
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noelbodwell
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« Reply #1607 on: August 05, 2010, 10:53:30 AM »

toastergirl,
That was one heck of a workout so soon after your Ironman! I'm surprised your coach didn't want you to recover longer from your race. Back when my husband and I ran marathons, he developed mononucleosis from training too hard for back to back marathons.  Just a little note of caution!!  Of course you want to capitalize on the shape you are in. What marathon have you chosen for the fall? Vermont City Marathon (in Burlington) is a beautiful course if you are ever looking for a spring marathon.

Sounds as though you know how to enjoy your training! I do miss that feeling from doing track workouts, but arthritis in  one knee puts the brakes on any speed work now. I'm relegated to only trails (which I have come to love).

NoŽl
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« Reply #1608 on: August 05, 2010, 05:59:35 PM »

Had some less than good news today so happy to get out for a little run and clear the mind.

Came to a point about a mile out and thought right here we go. Slipped the sprints off and ran back barefoot. Wow! I swear by my sprints and yet as minimal as they are I am still not barefoot. Still a world of difference.

The single track back road surface was quite course. No super smooth tarmac here. No matter. The gait and everything else adjusted and lost nothing in my pace. The pace may have been the same but I was running easier and lighter. Will be doing this again.


Jason Barefooter in the making
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« Reply #1608 on: August 05, 2010, 05:59:35 PM »

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balsam0
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« Reply #1609 on: August 06, 2010, 09:03:56 AM »

I was starting to like my sprints until they gave me a massive blood blister on my left foot.  I think I am going to run in my bikila till my feet fully heal then try the barefoot route again.  The temperatures are starting to cool so I don't have to worry about heat acclimation.

I ran 2 miles last night with the dog in my bikila.  The dog sandbagged it as usual, but it was still nice to get out there and run some miles. 
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« Reply #1610 on: August 06, 2010, 10:02:21 AM »

I recently had some TOFP from a three mile run on concrete (after not running on concrete in several months). I ended up taking a week and a half off from running in order to rest.  I did a little over two miles on Monday on the indoor track, and did a very satisfying three miles yesterday (all in my Sprints). Foot feels great! No issues, and I'm thinking of keeping it at three miles for a week or so, then doing a little bit of speedwork later on.  Not going to push it. I definitely have to start ending my runs with a couple minutes barefoot outside though. I really feel it when the form kicks in, but occasionally I get sloppy in the VFFs. More regular BFR will definitely keep me honest.
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« Reply #1611 on: August 06, 2010, 10:27:46 AM »

8K barefoot fartlek this morning. Great fun!

Alan
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toastergirl
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« Reply #1612 on: August 06, 2010, 01:35:17 PM »

toastergirl,
That was one heck of a workout so soon after your Ironman! I'm surprised your coach didn't want you to recover longer from your race. Back when my husband and I ran marathons, he developed mononucleosis from training too hard for back to back marathons.  Just a little note of caution!!  Of course you want to capitalize on the shape you are in. What marathon have you chosen for the fall? Vermont City Marathon (in Burlington) is a beautiful course if you are ever looking for a spring marathon.

Sounds as though you know how to enjoy your training! I do miss that feeling from doing track workouts, but arthritis in  one knee puts the brakes on any speed work now. I'm relegated to only trails (which I have come to love).

NoŽl

It certainly was one heck of a workout.  I was so happy and proud of myself that I made it through.  I really think after all this I am more cut out for ultra distance races - I am not super fast but I can seemingly just go and go.  which is why I am working more speed stuff than long slow distance runs.  endurance is not a problem - that seems to come natural to me.  I have to work on the speed thing. 

yeah, I thought that it was a bit soon to be jumping right into things after an IM -- only a week and a half of recovery.  I usually take a month off.  I chose the spinx marathon in Greenville SC, on Oct 30th.  I said to one of my friends either my coach is a genius or a certified wacko! LOL! Actually, I was very prepared and felt awesome for my IM, so i am going to go with the genius part.  I think that he knows what he is doing and I am going to trust him.  I said that I felt good after IM and I was able to do a 6.5 mile hike in the adirondacks 2 days post IM.  I had SO much more to give in my legs on that run - so having that side stitch hold me back was incredibly frustrating. 

but thanks for the warning on the mono thing! Something certainly to be aware of.  I have been eating very well and staying rather strict with my sleeping making sure I am getting enough sleep most nights.  Gotta get back into my supplements though - have been slacking a bit the last 2 weeks. 

after Oct 30th I am officially going to become a slacker for at least a month if not more! this has been one heck of a training year for me!

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noelbodwell
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« Reply #1613 on: August 07, 2010, 06:26:49 AM »

toastergirl,
I'm really impressed with your conditioning. You're right, your coach knows what he is doing. I agree with you about endurance. I think most of us have either endurance or speed and then thereare the lucky ones who can merge the two. When I was running long distance, my goal was to qualify for the Boston Marathon. It took 5 marathons to do it. Two of them I missed the qualifying time by less than 2 minutes. I never felt good after running a marathon and usually ended up in a medical tent  nauseous and ready for an IV. Didn't matter how much water I drank! When I finally qualified, I ran Boston twice and then retired from long distance. It  just didn't agree with my body. Happy for you that that you're gifted with those slow twitch muscles and have built your great endurance. Enjoy your marathon training!!

NoŽl
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« Reply #1614 on: August 07, 2010, 05:08:07 PM »

I ran my farthest run ever today!  16km, in my bikilas. I'm training for a half on Oct 2, so I'm feeling good that I can do 16 already with like 6 weeks to go!  Love those bikilas!
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« Reply #1615 on: August 08, 2010, 02:29:21 PM »

Took myself out for a lap of the Westend 8 course. Not ran anything like this distance in quite some time now. Tough. Glad i got out when I did as just getting warmer all the time. Set gizmo for 10:15 mile pace. Avg 10:05 so happy with that. Started to run out of juice around the 7 mile mark as usual. Will take some energy bar with me on John Fraser 10 and 1/2 marathon in September.

Details here.http://connect.garmin.com/activity/43689922.

Jason
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« Reply #1616 on: August 09, 2010, 10:13:51 AM »

toastergirl,
I'm really impressed with your conditioning. You're right, your coach knows what he is doing. I agree with you about endurance. I think most of us have either endurance or speed and then thereare the lucky ones who can merge the two. When I was running long distance, my goal was to qualify for the Boston Marathon. It took 5 marathons to do it. Two of them I missed the qualifying time by less than 2 minutes. I never felt good after running a marathon and usually ended up in a medical tent  nauseous and ready for an IV. Didn't matter how much water I drank! When I finally qualified, I ran Boston twice and then retired from long distance. It  just didn't agree with my body. Happy for you that that you're gifted with those slow twitch muscles and have built your great endurance. Enjoy your marathon training!!

NoŽl

thanks Noel!   long distance races are rather fickle.  you train and train for months and months, for a certain time/pace and you get one shot at it....one day, just a few short hours to make it happen.  And when it doesn't it can be a tough pill to swallow.  you never know what the day will throw at you. 

I have found that race day nutrition is absolutely key to long distance and key to keeping you out of the med tent.  I have felt great after all my long events as of late.  Not so much in the very beginning, as I struggled a lot at the end of races to keep my early pace.  But now I have a tried and tested nutrition plan and a some backups in case I have a funky stomach issues (my stomach is rather sensitive during exercise).  and I have pretty smooth energy levels all through the event.

~~~~~~~

I did my long run this weekend for marathon training on a towpath trail near Eason PA area.  OOPS! NOT a good idea.  I was looking to save my feet/legs on a 20 miler that was on my schedule.  Yup...20 miles, 2 weeks post Ironman.  My feet are pretty tender today!  Sad  they had just laid down some fresh chipped up rocks/large gravel on the trail.  UGH! that stuff really beat the crap out of my feet.  Wound up only doing 10 of the 20 miles.  I was on target pace for all of them until I was just in so much pain I just had to stop.  So I had turned around already and by the 10th one I was just hobbling.  I just decided that I wanted to be able to run this week again so I traded spots with my fiance.  He was pacing me and marking my miles with his mountain bike.  I rode back on the bike and he ran back! 

doing the same run again this week -- 20x 1 mile. 1 min rest in between (@9:59 or faster).  Will definitely be hitting the roads this week.




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« Reply #1617 on: August 09, 2010, 11:58:00 AM »

toaster

A few questions if you would not mind.

What do you use for nutrition/fuel on the move?
When do you start taking it on?
How often? miles vs time

I suspect I leave it slightly too late and end up in deficit rather than keeping topped up.

Cheers
Jason
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« Reply #1618 on: August 09, 2010, 12:38:03 PM »

toaster

A few questions if you would not mind.

What do you use for nutrition/fuel on the move?
When do you start taking it on?
How often? miles vs time

I suspect I leave it slightly too late and end up in deficit rather than keeping topped up.

Cheers
Jason


ardent:
1-- I use hammer nutrition fuels (http://www.hammernutrition.com/affiliates/82100/):  Perpetuem (caffe latte flavor on the run), endurolytes, anti-fatugue caps, and endurance amino.  occasionally a gel (my faves right now are raspberry and chocolate) - when I feel like it.  also lots of water....as I am profuse sweater! I lose about 2 pounds of sweat in a 45min spin class. 
2 -- I start immediately in on fueling and drinking.
3 -- I have an interval timer set on my watch for every 15min to beep.  that's my "feed timer".  else i forget to eat/drink.  It used to be every 20min, but I think that was too long in between for me.  experiement.  we are all different.  I eat pereptuem every 15min, and if I want a break then I will eat part of a gel for a feeding then go back to the perpetuem.  perpetuem is my main fuel - its got mostly carbs and some protein and fat.  nutrition profile available online.  Experiment with doseages and consistencies too.  I can only use about 1 scoop per hour for running - but use 1.5 scoops per hour for biking.  I like it thin and dilute on the bike but thicker with less water on the run. 
as for the other things listed, they are pills....2 endurolytes per 30min (again, because of the profuse sweating) and 1 antifatugue and 1 endurance amino each hour. 

please let me know if you have any more questions!


I can only do liquid fuels while both biking and running.  some people can do solids.  only way to find out is to experiment. 
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noelbodwell
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« Reply #1619 on: August 09, 2010, 01:34:20 PM »

I did my long run this weekend for marathon training on a towpath trail near Eason PA area.  OOPS! NOT a good idea.  I was looking to save my feet/legs on a 20 miler that was on my schedule.  Yup...20 miles, 2 weeks post Ironman.  My feet are pretty tender today!  Sad  they had just laid down some fresh chipped up rocks/large gravel on the trail.  UGH! that stuff really beat the crap out of my feet.  Wound up only doing 10 of the 20 miles.  I was on target pace for all of them until I was just in so much pain I just had to stop.  So I had turned around already and by the 10th one I was just hobbling.  I just decided that I wanted to be able to run this week again so I traded spots with my fiance.  He was pacing me and marking my miles with his mountain bike.  I rode back on the bike and he ran back! 

doing the same run again this week -- 20x 1 mile. 1 min rest in between (@9:59 or faster).  Will definitely be hitting the roads this week.


Wise decision to stop the run at 10 miles before you really damaged your feet. Think of biking the other ten as cross training.
I always had a plan/mapped route for my long runs, and occasionally my body decided not to cooperate. A few days later, all was well on the same run. It's all about listening to your body!

NoŽl
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