This past Friday I had the opportunity to catch up with Mountain Chang, the founder of The Primal Professional — the first men’s professional dress shoe that is a “barefoot shoe” in disguise. What’s that mean? It means Mountain has endeavored to bring to market a shoe that you can wear with a suit that won’t attract unusual looks; it’s a zero-drop shoe with an approximately 4mm rubber sole that utilizes various tricks of the eye to look like a traditional cap-toe men’s dress shoe, complete with an elevated heel and that annoying narrowing in the toe box; but the Primal Professional actually has no elevated heel or constricting toe box!
Intrigued? Well, read on to see a few sneak peak photos of the Primal Professional including a little video interview with Mountain!
About the Primal Professional
In a nutshell, the Primal Professional looks like a pair of Oxford, cap-toe dress shoes — the kinds of shoes you’d wear with a full-blown suit, a tuxedo, or a nice pair of slacks. Note I’m not suggesting these are merely a pair of dressier shoes that “you can get away with” wearing to a professional environment; these are the types of shoes you could wear and virtually no one would be the wiser that you’re wearing “barefoot shoes.” The Primal Professional promises to be the real deal — the dress shoe it seems like every male I know has been waiting for.
Below is a little more detail as to what Mountain set out to accomplish with creating the Primal Professional:
I set out to create a shoe that looks indistinguishable from the most conservative Oxford. A shoe you could wear through a job interview and into a black tie affair. Without compromising barefoot comfort. How is this possible? We came up with a couple tricks of the eye that you’ll love.
The best way to illustrate the key features of the Primal Professional is to compare them against a Traditional shoe, and earlier attempts at a barefoot dress shoe. A Traditional shoe has a heel lift, arch support, and a thick sole. We hate these things, but they’re what people expect visually of dress shoes. Earlier attempts take a dressy upper and attach it to a flat sole, so there’s no heel lift, no arch support, and a thin sole, but dressy looks are lost. Through creative design, our patent-pending Time CapSole allows the best of both worlds. While it may look like there is a heel lift and arch support, those structures are actually hollow, and allow the foot to sit flat inside for a real barefoot feel.
Another key feature of the Primal Professional is the innovative shape. A Traditional shoe has a dressy, narrow tip, but it severely constricts the toes. An earlier attempt shoe might try a wider tip, but that looks too casual. In developing our shoe, we identified where the toes are within the toebox, allowed ample space for them up to that point, then dramatically tapered everything thereafter into a dressy tip. Tricks of the eye. Like a hunter-gatherer in camouflage.
Sounds pretty good, no?
Interview with Mountain Chang, Creator of the Primal Professional
Since Mountain happened to be passing through Atlanta, we got to met up and talk shoes. It seems that Mountain, somewhat ironically, recently left his professional job where he had to wear dress shoes to dedicate his time fully to bringing the Primal Professional to market. He’s now doing everything he can to get the “PriPros” out in the market as soon as possible — possibly as soon as Summer of 2012 (Unfortunatetly, Spring 2012 doesn’t look possible, as Mountain had been hoping).
Below is a quick (~2 minutes) interview with Mountain we shot at our meeting, including a little video “foot”age of the shoes at the end:
Meanwhile, as pictures are worth a thousand words, here’s a little photo gallery goodness for you:
You’ll note that there are a couple of running changes to the Primal Professional design. One is that the shoes will now feature full-grain cowhide leather uppers. You can see the quality difference that full-grain makes in the above photo which shows an earlier Primal Professional prototype.
Also, the shoes will have a slightly pointier cap; rest assured that the tapering will not come at the expense of cramping your toes; Mountain explains that the shoes will simply extend a bit further out past the ends of your toes to create a more classic, pointed aesthetic but remain wide enough as is necessary to accommodate a foot naturally. Like Mountain said, it’s all about tricks of the eye.
Would you pay for these?
If you’re reading through this wondering, “Okay, how do I get these things??” Well, for now, it looks as though pre-orders are on hold until the first wave of shoes is created and released. That said, the Primal Professionals do not come cheaply; they’re priced at $300 a pair.
I’m hopeful that price might come down in the future as that’s a pretty penny to pay for a pair of shoes — even if they are dress shoes. That said, given that there are virtually no other options out there for a true, men’s dress shoe and Mountain is trying to get this product off the ground from practically nothing, well, I can see how the price makes sense.
The truth is that the success of a product like the Primal Professional really depends on there being enough demand — not just within the minimalist/”barefoot” shoe community, but within the population at large. Really, what male wouldn’t want a pair of dress shoes that didn’t completely cramp their toes? My well-broken in cap-toe Bostonian Classics are utter misery to wear; I rue the days I have to don them to a wedding or business event requiring dressier attire. The Primal Professional would be a godsend for such occasions.
What do you think? Are these the dress shoes you’ve been waiting for? I, for one, look forward to seeing the final product, and you can rest assured, we’ll be covering it fully here on BirthdayShoes. Sound off on your thoughts on the Primal Professional in the comments!
The Primal Professional – Original Promotional Video and Materials
is a shoe with dressy looks and barefoot comfort, the first of its kind.
has no heel, no arch, no thick sole, no narrow tip. It just looks like it does.
is completely made in the USA, ethically and sustainably.
is assembled by a shoemaker known for quality and durability.
is completely risk-free. Request a full refund at any time before we ship. If you’re not fully satisfied, we have a 30-day, 105% money-back guarantee.
Below is the original video Mountain made to promote the Primal Professional.
You can keep up with the upcoming release of the Primal Professional by liking them on Facebook.
Justin Owings is a deadlifting dad of three, working from Atlanta. When he's not chasing his three kids around, you'll find him trying to understand systems, risk, and human behavior.
58 replies on “The Primal Professional – Barefoot-Friendly Dress Shoes [Sneak Peek]”
“Would you pay for these?”
No.
I would buy these today if I could!
I’ll take two if they have one pair in black and the other in a good shade of brown. $300 is less then any decent mens dress shoe. Most tend to run $450 and up for the pleasure of “supple leather to suite your feet” – while not really getting it that shape and thickness of that supple leather around your feet is the big issue. Something like these would just about round out my footwear. Yeah, I just took another look — sign me up.
I was wearing my Rockports yesterday and just thinking how I felt as though I was tipping forward the entire time. I got home and immediately switched to classic VFF’s. And I was thinking how great it would be to have some minimalist dress shoes. My wife won’t let we wear KSO’s to formal stuff. Then I check out the site and there they are. Now if they only made a work boot style I would be totally happy…..
wooo hooo. I am very happy about the news.
A quality pair of dress shoe from Allen Edmonds runs from $250-$400. I’d be happy to pay $300 for these provided the quality is there.
Hopefully some chocolate brown models are in the works. Maybe some wingtips in the future?
I would love to pay for them, but I won’t. That sort of money just isn’t in the cards for my footwear.
Now if I could convince my employer to pony up the cash, I’d have them in a heartbeat.
Give us a wider toe box please. Having your toes cramped in there makes it almost useless.
I’m excited to see a BF version of a classic dress shoe. The price point is too high for me. Alternatively, I’ve been wearing a black pair of Vivobarefoot Ra’s as my dress shoe, but for many people, the Ra’s are probably too casual, and that’s where this shoe comes to the rescue.
@Mike Kim – it does have a wide toe box.
I hate to say it… No I would never ever consider paying $300 for those shoes. No matter how much I like them. I have a very hard time paying over $160 for a shoe. I have an even harder time paying over $200. I don’t think I have ever spent more then $189 on a pair of shoes. That was including the shipping from Europe and the Exchange Rate.
I would have a HUGE use for these shoes at the Formal events I go to. I go to allot of formal events on a regular basis. I am at the Opera, Ballet, Theater, and various political events often. I have about one or two events every two weeks that these would be very useful for.
I could just never justify the cost of the shoe. If they were $160-$200 I would pick them up. Personally, I feel like part of the reason the price is so high is because he is trying to produce them in America. If he went to china to get them produced the price point would be much more on par with what I would consider to be reasonable.
For now though I think only executives that can afford a luxury shoe like this will be interested. Do do hope he can get enough of a market share to be successful. I just wonder if there is a big enough market out there for a Luxury Minimalist Dress shoe.
I would love a pair of these if i could. But i feel the price point is too high for shoes. most i spend is $200. Maybe the price will come down if it takes off
Just take out the insole and you have a thin,zero-drop, pretty dressy shoe (only $140 dollars too)
Just trying to go against the claim that there are no other minimalist dress shoes. These work pretty well
Thanks, everyone, for the kind words. Re: the toebox, I will probably have to take an X-ray of my feet in the shoe, to really show how wide it is.
@ Don
The problems I have with the Vivobarefoot Ra are the vinyl/plastic strap that says Vivobarefoot, the limited availability outside of their website and the Internet (one store in the entire U.S.), the seams (especially inside), and the slightly uneven glue jobs they do. Also the shape is bigger than normal shoes, but not really when you consider 4E wide sizes.
@ Mountain
Firstly, let me congratulate you on propeling this idea this far.
I appreciate what you’re trying to do, but I think $300 is way too much for it to reach a wide market. Instead, you may want to cut the profit margin a bit and try to sell more of it instead, using places like Barefoot runs (such as those from Barefoot running society, Society for Barefoot Living, Primalfoot alliance, or the NYC Barefoot Run) as a way to market your shoe. For that kind of money, people may also want to invest in 1mm Vibram rubber overlay on the forefoot and heel like people do with their Louboutins so you could offer precut outsole sections for that purpose.
I think the hollowing out of the sole is a design concept you see on the Merrell Tough Glove, so what you have there isn’t exactly as innovative as you claim it to be though. The extra space in the toe also is no different than any leather driving shoes.
Also, I don’t know how your shoe compares to Rockport’s truwalk or Kalso Earth shoes which are pretty heavy. You might want to list how heavy it is for M42 like Vivobarefoot does (as well ad providing other metrics like the last). Better yet, try to get a shoe-fitr like representative comparison.
@Robert:
The fact that you have roughly an event a week you’d wear them for isn’t enough to justify them?? What more of a justification do you need? And LOL at the China bit… that’s the kind of mentality that leads to everything being produced in China :/
As others have said, $300 is NOT that much money when you compare it to the price of regular dress shoes — heck, even when you compare it to the price of some minimalist footwear! Besides, if these are made to the quality they seem to be, they’ll last years and years, making it cost-effective in the long run. Anyone who owns multiple pairs of Vibrams and complains about the price is pretty much a hypocrite…
All that being said, I’m glad I’m a girl and don’t have to fork out so much money for dress shoes in general. I just wear my Lunas with the traditional wrap laces and I get compliments all day long 🙂
I would definitely pay that if there was an option for women. I hope Mountain is successful enough that he might consider branching into women’s shoes as well. I wear ballet flats daily to my job at a CPA firm and while they are better than heels they are a little too tight in the toe box. Unfortunately for me the Vivos and Merrells are too casual for my workplace. There just doesn’t seem to be a flat women’s shoe that is both formal and feminine with enough room in the toe box for a more professional/formal environment. I’m jealous that you guys have the option(go buy that shoe!) and good luck to Mountain!
@chirmer: I have to disagree with you on this one. Buying multiple vibrams for the same price as one pair of dress shoes does not make someone a hypocrite…it’s about value, and I’ll take 3 pairs over 1. These dress shoes look awesome. I’d absolutely LOVE a pair, but would never buy them. Most males don’t have it in our psyche to spend over $150 for shoes. Might work for women who drop $500 on a purse. No way this thing succeeds at that price.
Fantastic! These are a bit expensive, priced in the upper range of shoes from Johnston & Murphy, but I’d do it in a heartbeat if I needed to. Fortunately, I can wear my VFFs to work. My J&M’s are in the closet and haven’t been worn in at least 3 years.
@Mountain
Have you thought about approaching angel or V.C. investors? I think this is a great idea, but the biggest issue is the price. It seems like the market is willing to pony up $200 for a pair. Perhaps having some investors that have some serious pockets could bring down the initial investment cost. The downside would be losing equity in the company, but it might be worth it in the long run.
$300 for a dress shoe? That’s reasonable for good quality. You can pay $150, but it won’t be a true dress shoe, and you won’t be able to resole it. The lesser price will show.
The better quality is worth the extra price, especially if it can be resoled. You’ll save money in the long run, not to mention getting a true dress shoe.
Lets see if this “$300 price” is a marketing tactic and when they are available the.price is $150… he would sell thousands of this!
A lot of the people that spend $300 on dress shoes do so, because they can be resoled (for a lot less). These inherently don’t have that option.
I find it a hard pill to swallow to spend that much on a disposable shoe.
Setting aside that issue for a moment, take a look at the holes for the laces and the stitching. The shoe doesn’t appear to contain $300 worth of craftsmanship. I understand that (at least initially), the volume will likely be low, so they need to make enough money to make it worth their while, but for $300, the holes need to not fray the laces, and the stitching quality needs to outdo “Payless Shoesource”.
Sorry… a follow-up.
For reference, I also think $160 was too much for the Bormios. I still bought a pair, because at-the-time, that was the closest I could get to a barefoot experience in something dressier that I could also wear in the snow.
Since then, when the price dropped to $100 on a number of outlets that were dumping them in a “fire sale”, I have picked up a few more pairs.
I wouldn’t be opposed to buying a traditional-looking shoe that had barefoot properties (as your prototype does). But (and this is a big but), if you are marketing something as “dress” shoe, it needs to have the polish. These just don’t look it, and consequently it’s hard to justify spending $300.
Albeit, not a “barefoot” shoe, I can buy a much more “polished” looking shoe (not shoe polish; fit-and-finish) from Johnston & Murphy for $200! …and, I can then have it resoled ad nauseum for $40-50, per sole. That one pair of shoes can last me 10 years for a cumulative cost of $420-$700 ($42-$70 per year). These shoes don’t look like they would last much past 1 year, at $300, with no resole options.
Hope that helps convey where I coming from.
@ Justin – If you can spread your toes, you know that is not wide enough
@ Mountain – you don’t need an xray, just put your foot on that insole from that 1st picture for reference
Really sad that you can’t make it wider because think it will look too casual.
Looks great! My Vivobarefoot Ra’s got delivered today and are waiting at home, I have a feeling I’ll only be disappointed after seeing these. The price is high, but as the only obvious solution to the problem, may not be asking too much… I’d have to see some proof that the quality is high though before buying.
Congrats!
Joe
P.S. Tip to birthdayshoes.com, maybe create a guide to getting (or creating via resoling) professional looking shoes? Seems to be a demand for it, just look at all the replies on this post.
@chirmer
I don’t have an issue with things being produced in China. The world is a global market place now. If you have to make a product in a different area of the world because it brings the cost down then that is what you have to do. I don’t consider made in USA in this instance to be a selling feature… I think it is a negative.
I also never pay full price for a pair of Vibram FiveFingers. For instance I have 7 pair of Bormio and I bought them all for $80 a pair. I would rather buy smart then waste my money.
I support Soft Star shoes because they are made in America AND the price is reasonable. For $112 you can design your own custom made colorway.
Russel Moroccans is an American made shoe. They produce a line of minimalist dress shoes that are produced on the Munson Army Last. Including a Calfskin Dress Oxford. The price is $300 and the shoes are CUSTOM MADE for your feet. Their shoes can also easily be resoled which greatly prolongs the life and value of the shoe. Meaning for the same price as the Primal Professional you can get a custom made shoe vs a mass produced shoe. If I was going to spend $300 on a pair of dress shoes I would go that route.
Lastly most of the more expensive dress shoes can be resoled again and again. That makes the initial cost worth the investment because you can significantly prolong the life of the shoe. As far as I know you can’t do that with the Primal Professional. Making it a much more significant investment. (Correction I heard you can resole the shoe.)
I hate to sound so negative because we NEED more dress options for minimalist footwear. I just don’t think the price point is low enough to make this product a success in the mass market. Men can be notoriously cheap when it comes to paying for fashion.
@A C C, the first thing everyone’s said when they pick up the shoes is “wow they’re so light!” We’ll publish the exact weight when we have M42’s made. Good idea on the overlays, we’ll run some feasibility tests for it.
@T.Dittle, harsh.
@Anonymous Coward, this was an e-mail from a resoler: “Absolutely no problem resoling them… and we may be able to find a way to recycle the old outsole after it has been removed!” We will reconfirm before going into production. I agree that the craftsmanship can be improved, and they will be, as this is a pre-production model. Can you help me understand what’s lacking in the eyelets though?
@mikekim, you can spread your toes. Dr. McClanahan’s Correct Toes just came onto my radar, and I’ll be sure they can be worn in our shoes.
@Robert, I actually started building PriPro using a Munson Last, to great disappointment. They were wide (& ugly), yet somehow still fucked with my toes. See above re: resoling.
@all, thanks for the feedback. We learn a lot from everything you say.
@Mountain I would like to see a black metal ring around the eyelets. Something to reinforce the eyelet more.
@Mountain:
Apologies for coming off as harsh. I truly hope you succeed and wish you the best. As I mentioned in the post, love the shoes. You’re an innovator and tapped into a real need, as evidenced by the many posts here. I hope you prove me wrong on the pricing. Maybe with success will come more options, some less expensive. Good luck!
sheer genius of course, I have no need for them, but if I were in a job that needed a formal dressing code, these would be a godsent gift, even at 300 USD
@ Mountain
Best of luck and I truly hope you are successful as you embark on this endeavor. I will agree with others that price point puts them out of reach for a lot of consumers, especially if one does not wear them daily to work or something. For the occasional wedding or funeral, $300 is a lot for a dress shoe. I will continue to follow your progress and I cannot wait to see what the final product that makes it to market looks like. Maybe you’d consider offering a give away through this site for some of us that just don’t have $300 to spend on shoes.
It’s hard to tell from those (relatively) low resolution photos, but it looks like the holes aren’t sufficiently burnished (it looks like you can see layers of leather in the inside edges). In addition, the holes are too small for the laces. The latter can be solved with smaller laces (like waxed ones). The former might be solved with grommets. I’d suggest a stronger metal than aluminum, and also a hard-wearing black finish. Polypropylene might be an option, if you can find ones that aren’t shiny, yet still slick enough, and black. But, that might make the shoe look too casual. Judging from the minor cracking/wrinkling in the finish of the leather, it might not be supple enough to support the kind of burnishing that would provide a slick enough finish in the holes to prevent fraying of the laces. Ability to resole is awesome news! If that can happen for < US$50 including labor and shipping, and the shoe has sufficient robustness that it actually be resoled more than once or twice (10+), and has better ground feel than the KSO Trek sole, I’d buy! 🙂
As an aside, I know someone mentioned that they’d like to see a chocolate brown version. While I’m all for variety, I think the other issues I mentioned should be a priority. You gotta start with a good foundation.
I absolutely will buy a pair for my husband! He is miserable when he has to wear dress shoes to work and tries to wear his Stems as much as he can get away with. There is a huge need for minimalist dress shoes for men (and women). $300 is very, very high, but I would buy these in anticipation of a lower price on its replacement down the road. So happy to see someone has solved this problem!
Wow, these look like a dream come true! I have bum achilles tendons that are in agony when I wear modern, stiff, heel rise footwear.
That said I am a student – unfortunately I cannot afford these. Boo
I’m an attorney who wears a suit nearly every day. Not only would I pay the $300, I would spring for the overnight shipping. And then do it all again once they are available in brown.
Any update on when production is set to kick in?
I’ve been looking all over for a WOMEN’S dress shoe that I can wear with a military-style uniform. Requirements are that it have a plain toe (no toe seams like on the Russell moc styles), cover the entire foot (no maryjanes like on the Vivobarefoots) and shinable black leather.
I am so sick of wearing uncomfortable shoes and boots to work I would gladly pay $300 for a women’s version. I might even but the men’s if I Vivo doesn’t come out with a women’s shoe soon . . .
The ONLY reason I can’t bring myself to buy these shoes is due to the inability to re-sole at a low cost (or at all). An investment in a $300 pair of dress shoes usually results in classic construction that allows you to re-sole the shoes multiple times, so you don’t have to buy a new pair each time. For an even lower cost than a total re-sole job, you can get taps or replacement heel/forefoot soles for less. I’ve re-soled or patched up my 160 dollar Johnston Murphy’s 5 times since I got them 3 years ago, averaging 30-50 dollars each time. The rubber my shop uses is Vibram and presumably is just as durable as whatever Barefoot Professional uses.
I work in NYC and do a fair amount of walking on the concrete, on average 30 minutes per day. That really takes its toll on shoes over the course of a year.
My specific use case (hard wear) magnifies the cost of shoes that do not have replaceable soles. Over time, the potential usage from classically constructed shoes
will be even cheaper than with Barefoot Professional due to the ability to re-sole. That’s not to say the BarefootProfessional isn’t worth it, but for certain people the 300 vs 300 for BP vs traditional isn’t a 1:1 comparison.
Note: an alternative is keeping the BP in your cube and wearing other shoes on the commute to/from work, and to/from lunch, but that would seem to defeat the one of the major reasons for having barefoot shoes. i.e. to walk in them
At that price point I’d probably look elsewhere though I think the concept is great. For mid $100s I get by w/ ECCOs which have narrow heel / wide, deep toeboxes, soft, flexible PU soles and often low rear/front drop, depending on model (in some ECCOs the heels are mostly an illusion). Not ideal but at a more affordable price point.
No offense Robert but it’s great that it’s made in america. I’d rather spend extra and help support my own country than buy some crap shoe from another country which would probably not be made as well in the first place. This is how the economy got so screwed up in the first place. If we can’t manufacture for our own country and buy american made goods, then what jobs does this country hold for future generations? We won’t even need these shoes if that’s the case because we will have a country full of sales-people that are selling foreign goods in retail stores to each other.
So are these shoes for sale now? If so, where can they be bought? And yes, Mountain, coming from someone who is in finance and works with many entrepreneurs, teaming up with some folks who have cash, if you haven’t done so already, may ultimately be the best way for you to get your shoes out to a wide market at a sustainable price point.
Honestly, No I would not buy this. For 300 bucks I need more than a plain capped-toe shoe that looks like something from JCPenney. Where’s the style/imagination? I do admire the drive to start your own business however.
I had already made contact with Mountain re the availability of PriPro’s. Btnmow I know that they are able to be resoled as well (something I have only discovered today) I can’t wait to get my hands on a black and brown pair. Nice to see not only great shoes for Minimalist aficionado’s, but also something that goes against the throw away consumerist attitude manufacturers seem to have embraced. Well done, Mountain…
I would not buy these at $300, but if he set the price point at the same level as the Vivobarefoot Ra, then I would buy them immediately.
MUST get these to market, ASAP. Wear suit everyday. I spend the first two hours of everyday training in VFFs or MTGs, then spend the rest of the day in stiff stacked heel leather dress shoes. Hate it! Bring us the PriPros!!!
For my work, they aren’t dressy enough. They look too much like something people wear that they think is dressy, but is only about 85% there. I love this idea, and if the quality was there, and the look was classy, then I’d definitely pay a premium to have a shoe that’s better for my body and feet.
Question: Whould you pay $300 for Primal shoes?
Answer: Would a parapalegic pay for a wheel chair? Would a cop pay for a bullet proof vest?
People that are seeking comfort or avoiding pain at work will consider cost as one of the last factors. First priority is a tie between pain avoidance and style. Second priority is comfort. 3rd priority is price.
Mountain you have GLOBAL support, keep it going !!!
These shoes are very exciting and I would buy a pair today if I could. Glad to see that Mountain has taken a concept to reality. Shoes are classy and a perfect solution to my wearing black Tom’s around my office in order to enjoy a zero drop in my footwear.
Just back from a weeks holiday wearing barefoot merrils or actually going bare foot for the whole week. 3hrs in my suit and appropriate dress/business shoes and I was off to local mall shoe shops in desperation. Now back in office and google to the rescue. Forget the price can you send me a pair of black prototypes immediately. Even in New Zealand i cant get away with barefeet in a business suit. If you need an agent in a tiny little country like New Zealand let me know!!!
I like the concept, but I can no way justify the cost. I have never spent more than $100 on any shoe. I live in the midwest where $300 is a huge sum of money for shoes. Maybe $300 is a good price in New York, or California but where I live that’s really expensive. I hope you do well, but I will not be a customer.
I’m looking forward to when the primal is available, but for now I recommend these three flexible dress shoes, with a nice size toebox:
-For a captoe oxford, check out the Bostonian Wenham wide.
-For a brown loafer with zero heal drop, look up the Patagonia Pau.
-For a black loafer, go with the Rockport Washington Square Venetian wide.
and
-The Spenco Comfort Insoles Flat lowers the heal drop and increases the toebox for any shoe
Bullshit. These aren’t even close to the first ‘barefoot-style dress shoes’. A few years ago J. Shoes made a pair of full dress shoes – much dressier than these – with no heal and a wide toebox, which I would argue is essential to ‘barefoot dress shoes’. I have a pair. They rule, and I wish I’d bought a few more in multiple colors. Needless to say, it’s nearly impossible to find really dressy shoes that are barefoot-ish and/or without heels. Camper also makes some, but they’re not dressy enough, in my opinion. I would do more research before making such claims.
Hey BDog, settledown there cha cha. Mountain claims his shoes are “the first men’s professional dress shoe that is a “barefoot shoe” in disguise.” not the first barefoot shoe ever. You might want to actually read what he says, before going off half cocked. Nevermind, i’m sure this isn’t the first time you’ve done it. Go ahead and shoot your mouth off, it’s probably your MO.
This is great. I hope in the future you will come up with same dress shoes with a little more ankle on them. If that’s this year I will buy two pairs, no doubt.
Nearing the end of a minimalist foot summer of jacked toes and legs, and great foot health, I came specifically to this site to find something I can wear in professional situations that would feel great on my newly empowered feet. I am very sad to see that the price is so beyond this minimum wage college musician. I hope this is the beginning of a revolution in professional footwear, and I hope this small business venture goes to many wonderful places. and when it does, and I can get these shoes, you can count on my purchase.
I’m very impressed with your presentation. All you have done and to keep your products “made in the USA”.
I can only give you, well done and I do hope you can get this product off and running.
1) Increase the number of eyelet rows from 5 to 6. This works better with straight-bar lacing. Also, as absurd as it sounds, I’ve had interviewers specifically say that they were glad my shoes had 6 rows of eyelets instead of 5.
2) Use full grain instead of corrected leather. To justify a high cost, these shoes need to last a while.
3) In terms of minor details, basically make the shoe as close to the Allen Edmond Park Avenue while still being biomechanically sound. There’s not much competition in terms of minimalist footwear for work. The thing that will prevent people from buying these are cost/value and meeting the standards of fashion snobs that require the rest of us to wear idiotic crap.
58 replies on “The Primal Professional – Barefoot-Friendly Dress Shoes [Sneak Peek]”
“Would you pay for these?”
No.
I would buy these today if I could!
I’ll take two if they have one pair in black and the other in a good shade of brown. $300 is less then any decent mens dress shoe. Most tend to run $450 and up for the pleasure of “supple leather to suite your feet” – while not really getting it that shape and thickness of that supple leather around your feet is the big issue. Something like these would just about round out my footwear. Yeah, I just took another look — sign me up.
I was wearing my Rockports yesterday and just thinking how I felt as though I was tipping forward the entire time. I got home and immediately switched to classic VFF’s. And I was thinking how great it would be to have some minimalist dress shoes. My wife won’t let we wear KSO’s to formal stuff. Then I check out the site and there they are. Now if they only made a work boot style I would be totally happy…..
wooo hooo. I am very happy about the news.
A quality pair of dress shoe from Allen Edmonds runs from $250-$400. I’d be happy to pay $300 for these provided the quality is there.
Hopefully some chocolate brown models are in the works. Maybe some wingtips in the future?
I would love to pay for them, but I won’t. That sort of money just isn’t in the cards for my footwear.
Now if I could convince my employer to pony up the cash, I’d have them in a heartbeat.
Give us a wider toe box please. Having your toes cramped in there makes it almost useless.
I’m excited to see a BF version of a classic dress shoe. The price point is too high for me. Alternatively, I’ve been wearing a black pair of Vivobarefoot Ra’s as my dress shoe, but for many people, the Ra’s are probably too casual, and that’s where this shoe comes to the rescue.
@Mike Kim – it does have a wide toe box.
I hate to say it… No I would never ever consider paying $300 for those shoes. No matter how much I like them. I have a very hard time paying over $160 for a shoe. I have an even harder time paying over $200. I don’t think I have ever spent more then $189 on a pair of shoes. That was including the shipping from Europe and the Exchange Rate.
I would have a HUGE use for these shoes at the Formal events I go to. I go to allot of formal events on a regular basis. I am at the Opera, Ballet, Theater, and various political events often. I have about one or two events every two weeks that these would be very useful for.
I could just never justify the cost of the shoe. If they were $160-$200 I would pick them up. Personally, I feel like part of the reason the price is so high is because he is trying to produce them in America. If he went to china to get them produced the price point would be much more on par with what I would consider to be reasonable.
For now though I think only executives that can afford a luxury shoe like this will be interested. Do do hope he can get enough of a market share to be successful. I just wonder if there is a big enough market out there for a Luxury Minimalist Dress shoe.
I would love a pair of these if i could. But i feel the price point is too high for shoes. most i spend is $200. Maybe the price will come down if it takes off
What about these?
http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/patagonia-mens-pau-loafer?p=79514-0-395&pcc=1128
Just take out the insole and you have a thin,zero-drop, pretty dressy shoe (only $140 dollars too)
Just trying to go against the claim that there are no other minimalist dress shoes. These work pretty well
Thanks, everyone, for the kind words. Re: the toebox, I will probably have to take an X-ray of my feet in the shoe, to really show how wide it is.
@ Don
The problems I have with the Vivobarefoot Ra are the vinyl/plastic strap that says Vivobarefoot, the limited availability outside of their website and the Internet (one store in the entire U.S.), the seams (especially inside), and the slightly uneven glue jobs they do. Also the shape is bigger than normal shoes, but not really when you consider 4E wide sizes.
@ Mountain
Firstly, let me congratulate you on propeling this idea this far.
I appreciate what you’re trying to do, but I think $300 is way too much for it to reach a wide market. Instead, you may want to cut the profit margin a bit and try to sell more of it instead, using places like Barefoot runs (such as those from Barefoot running society, Society for Barefoot Living, Primalfoot alliance, or the NYC Barefoot Run) as a way to market your shoe. For that kind of money, people may also want to invest in 1mm Vibram rubber overlay on the forefoot and heel like people do with their Louboutins so you could offer precut outsole sections for that purpose.
I think the hollowing out of the sole is a design concept you see on the Merrell Tough Glove, so what you have there isn’t exactly as innovative as you claim it to be though. The extra space in the toe also is no different than any leather driving shoes.
Also, I don’t know how your shoe compares to Rockport’s truwalk or Kalso Earth shoes which are pretty heavy. You might want to list how heavy it is for M42 like Vivobarefoot does (as well ad providing other metrics like the last). Better yet, try to get a shoe-fitr like representative comparison.
@Robert:
The fact that you have roughly an event a week you’d wear them for isn’t enough to justify them?? What more of a justification do you need? And LOL at the China bit… that’s the kind of mentality that leads to everything being produced in China :/
As others have said, $300 is NOT that much money when you compare it to the price of regular dress shoes — heck, even when you compare it to the price of some minimalist footwear! Besides, if these are made to the quality they seem to be, they’ll last years and years, making it cost-effective in the long run. Anyone who owns multiple pairs of Vibrams and complains about the price is pretty much a hypocrite…
All that being said, I’m glad I’m a girl and don’t have to fork out so much money for dress shoes in general. I just wear my Lunas with the traditional wrap laces and I get compliments all day long 🙂
I would definitely pay that if there was an option for women. I hope Mountain is successful enough that he might consider branching into women’s shoes as well. I wear ballet flats daily to my job at a CPA firm and while they are better than heels they are a little too tight in the toe box. Unfortunately for me the Vivos and Merrells are too casual for my workplace. There just doesn’t seem to be a flat women’s shoe that is both formal and feminine with enough room in the toe box for a more professional/formal environment. I’m jealous that you guys have the option(go buy that shoe!) and good luck to Mountain!
@chirmer: I have to disagree with you on this one. Buying multiple vibrams for the same price as one pair of dress shoes does not make someone a hypocrite…it’s about value, and I’ll take 3 pairs over 1. These dress shoes look awesome. I’d absolutely LOVE a pair, but would never buy them. Most males don’t have it in our psyche to spend over $150 for shoes. Might work for women who drop $500 on a purse. No way this thing succeeds at that price.
Fantastic! These are a bit expensive, priced in the upper range of shoes from Johnston & Murphy, but I’d do it in a heartbeat if I needed to. Fortunately, I can wear my VFFs to work. My J&M’s are in the closet and haven’t been worn in at least 3 years.
@Mountain
Have you thought about approaching angel or V.C. investors? I think this is a great idea, but the biggest issue is the price. It seems like the market is willing to pony up $200 for a pair. Perhaps having some investors that have some serious pockets could bring down the initial investment cost. The downside would be losing equity in the company, but it might be worth it in the long run.
$300 for a dress shoe? That’s reasonable for good quality. You can pay $150, but it won’t be a true dress shoe, and you won’t be able to resole it. The lesser price will show.
The better quality is worth the extra price, especially if it can be resoled. You’ll save money in the long run, not to mention getting a true dress shoe.
Lets see if this “$300 price” is a marketing tactic and when they are available the.price is $150… he would sell thousands of this!
A lot of the people that spend $300 on dress shoes do so, because they can be resoled (for a lot less). These inherently don’t have that option.
I find it a hard pill to swallow to spend that much on a disposable shoe.
Setting aside that issue for a moment, take a look at the holes for the laces and the stitching. The shoe doesn’t appear to contain $300 worth of craftsmanship. I understand that (at least initially), the volume will likely be low, so they need to make enough money to make it worth their while, but for $300, the holes need to not fray the laces, and the stitching quality needs to outdo “Payless Shoesource”.
Sorry… a follow-up.
For reference, I also think $160 was too much for the Bormios. I still bought a pair, because at-the-time, that was the closest I could get to a barefoot experience in something dressier that I could also wear in the snow.
Since then, when the price dropped to $100 on a number of outlets that were dumping them in a “fire sale”, I have picked up a few more pairs.
I wouldn’t be opposed to buying a traditional-looking shoe that had barefoot properties (as your prototype does). But (and this is a big but), if you are marketing something as “dress” shoe, it needs to have the polish. These just don’t look it, and consequently it’s hard to justify spending $300.
Albeit, not a “barefoot” shoe, I can buy a much more “polished” looking shoe (not shoe polish; fit-and-finish) from Johnston & Murphy for $200! …and, I can then have it resoled ad nauseum for $40-50, per sole. That one pair of shoes can last me 10 years for a cumulative cost of $420-$700 ($42-$70 per year). These shoes don’t look like they would last much past 1 year, at $300, with no resole options.
Hope that helps convey where I coming from.
@ Justin – If you can spread your toes, you know that is not wide enough
@ Mountain – you don’t need an xray, just put your foot on that insole from that 1st picture for reference
Really sad that you can’t make it wider because think it will look too casual.
Looks great! My Vivobarefoot Ra’s got delivered today and are waiting at home, I have a feeling I’ll only be disappointed after seeing these. The price is high, but as the only obvious solution to the problem, may not be asking too much… I’d have to see some proof that the quality is high though before buying.
Congrats!
Joe
P.S. Tip to birthdayshoes.com, maybe create a guide to getting (or creating via resoling) professional looking shoes? Seems to be a demand for it, just look at all the replies on this post.
@chirmer
I don’t have an issue with things being produced in China. The world is a global market place now. If you have to make a product in a different area of the world because it brings the cost down then that is what you have to do. I don’t consider made in USA in this instance to be a selling feature… I think it is a negative.
I also never pay full price for a pair of Vibram FiveFingers. For instance I have 7 pair of Bormio and I bought them all for $80 a pair. I would rather buy smart then waste my money.
I support Soft Star shoes because they are made in America AND the price is reasonable. For $112 you can design your own custom made colorway.
Russel Moroccans is an American made shoe. They produce a line of minimalist dress shoes that are produced on the Munson Army Last. Including a Calfskin Dress Oxford. The price is $300 and the shoes are CUSTOM MADE for your feet. Their shoes can also easily be resoled which greatly prolongs the life and value of the shoe. Meaning for the same price as the Primal Professional you can get a custom made shoe vs a mass produced shoe. If I was going to spend $300 on a pair of dress shoes I would go that route.
http://www.russellminimalistfootwear.com
Lastly most of the more expensive dress shoes can be resoled again and again. That makes the initial cost worth the investment because you can significantly prolong the life of the shoe. As far as I know you can’t do that with the Primal Professional. Making it a much more significant investment. (Correction I heard you can resole the shoe.)
I hate to sound so negative because we NEED more dress options for minimalist footwear. I just don’t think the price point is low enough to make this product a success in the mass market. Men can be notoriously cheap when it comes to paying for fashion.
@A C C, the first thing everyone’s said when they pick up the shoes is “wow they’re so light!” We’ll publish the exact weight when we have M42’s made. Good idea on the overlays, we’ll run some feasibility tests for it.
@T.Dittle, harsh.
@Anonymous Coward, this was an e-mail from a resoler: “Absolutely no problem resoling them… and we may be able to find a way to recycle the old outsole after it has been removed!” We will reconfirm before going into production. I agree that the craftsmanship can be improved, and they will be, as this is a pre-production model. Can you help me understand what’s lacking in the eyelets though?
@mikekim, you can spread your toes. Dr. McClanahan’s Correct Toes just came onto my radar, and I’ll be sure they can be worn in our shoes.
@Robert, I actually started building PriPro using a Munson Last, to great disappointment. They were wide (& ugly), yet somehow still fucked with my toes. See above re: resoling.
@all, thanks for the feedback. We learn a lot from everything you say.
@Mountain I would like to see a black metal ring around the eyelets. Something to reinforce the eyelet more.
@Mountain:
Apologies for coming off as harsh. I truly hope you succeed and wish you the best. As I mentioned in the post, love the shoes. You’re an innovator and tapped into a real need, as evidenced by the many posts here. I hope you prove me wrong on the pricing. Maybe with success will come more options, some less expensive. Good luck!
sheer genius of course, I have no need for them, but if I were in a job that needed a formal dressing code, these would be a godsent gift, even at 300 USD
@ Mountain
Best of luck and I truly hope you are successful as you embark on this endeavor. I will agree with others that price point puts them out of reach for a lot of consumers, especially if one does not wear them daily to work or something. For the occasional wedding or funeral, $300 is a lot for a dress shoe. I will continue to follow your progress and I cannot wait to see what the final product that makes it to market looks like. Maybe you’d consider offering a give away through this site for some of us that just don’t have $300 to spend on shoes.
It’s hard to tell from those (relatively) low resolution photos, but it looks like the holes aren’t sufficiently burnished (it looks like you can see layers of leather in the inside edges). In addition, the holes are too small for the laces. The latter can be solved with smaller laces (like waxed ones). The former might be solved with grommets. I’d suggest a stronger metal than aluminum, and also a hard-wearing black finish. Polypropylene might be an option, if you can find ones that aren’t shiny, yet still slick enough, and black. But, that might make the shoe look too casual. Judging from the minor cracking/wrinkling in the finish of the leather, it might not be supple enough to support the kind of burnishing that would provide a slick enough finish in the holes to prevent fraying of the laces. Ability to resole is awesome news! If that can happen for < US$50 including labor and shipping, and the shoe has sufficient robustness that it actually be resoled more than once or twice (10+), and has better ground feel than the KSO Trek sole, I’d buy! 🙂
As an aside, I know someone mentioned that they’d like to see a chocolate brown version. While I’m all for variety, I think the other issues I mentioned should be a priority. You gotta start with a good foundation.
I absolutely will buy a pair for my husband! He is miserable when he has to wear dress shoes to work and tries to wear his Stems as much as he can get away with. There is a huge need for minimalist dress shoes for men (and women). $300 is very, very high, but I would buy these in anticipation of a lower price on its replacement down the road. So happy to see someone has solved this problem!
Wow, these look like a dream come true! I have bum achilles tendons that are in agony when I wear modern, stiff, heel rise footwear.
That said I am a student – unfortunately I cannot afford these. Boo
I’m an attorney who wears a suit nearly every day. Not only would I pay the $300, I would spring for the overnight shipping. And then do it all again once they are available in brown.
Any update on when production is set to kick in?
I’ve been looking all over for a WOMEN’S dress shoe that I can wear with a military-style uniform. Requirements are that it have a plain toe (no toe seams like on the Russell moc styles), cover the entire foot (no maryjanes like on the Vivobarefoots) and shinable black leather.
I am so sick of wearing uncomfortable shoes and boots to work I would gladly pay $300 for a women’s version. I might even but the men’s if I Vivo doesn’t come out with a women’s shoe soon . . .
The ONLY reason I can’t bring myself to buy these shoes is due to the inability to re-sole at a low cost (or at all). An investment in a $300 pair of dress shoes usually results in classic construction that allows you to re-sole the shoes multiple times, so you don’t have to buy a new pair each time. For an even lower cost than a total re-sole job, you can get taps or replacement heel/forefoot soles for less. I’ve re-soled or patched up my 160 dollar Johnston Murphy’s 5 times since I got them 3 years ago, averaging 30-50 dollars each time. The rubber my shop uses is Vibram and presumably is just as durable as whatever Barefoot Professional uses.
I work in NYC and do a fair amount of walking on the concrete, on average 30 minutes per day. That really takes its toll on shoes over the course of a year.
My specific use case (hard wear) magnifies the cost of shoes that do not have replaceable soles. Over time, the potential usage from classically constructed shoes
will be even cheaper than with Barefoot Professional due to the ability to re-sole. That’s not to say the BarefootProfessional isn’t worth it, but for certain people the 300 vs 300 for BP vs traditional isn’t a 1:1 comparison.
Note: an alternative is keeping the BP in your cube and wearing other shoes on the commute to/from work, and to/from lunch, but that would seem to defeat the one of the major reasons for having barefoot shoes. i.e. to walk in them
At that price point I’d probably look elsewhere though I think the concept is great. For mid $100s I get by w/ ECCOs which have narrow heel / wide, deep toeboxes, soft, flexible PU soles and often low rear/front drop, depending on model (in some ECCOs the heels are mostly an illusion). Not ideal but at a more affordable price point.
No offense Robert but it’s great that it’s made in america. I’d rather spend extra and help support my own country than buy some crap shoe from another country which would probably not be made as well in the first place. This is how the economy got so screwed up in the first place. If we can’t manufacture for our own country and buy american made goods, then what jobs does this country hold for future generations? We won’t even need these shoes if that’s the case because we will have a country full of sales-people that are selling foreign goods in retail stores to each other.
So are these shoes for sale now? If so, where can they be bought? And yes, Mountain, coming from someone who is in finance and works with many entrepreneurs, teaming up with some folks who have cash, if you haven’t done so already, may ultimately be the best way for you to get your shoes out to a wide market at a sustainable price point.
Honestly, No I would not buy this. For 300 bucks I need more than a plain capped-toe shoe that looks like something from JCPenney. Where’s the style/imagination? I do admire the drive to start your own business however.
I had already made contact with Mountain re the availability of PriPro’s. Btnmow I know that they are able to be resoled as well (something I have only discovered today) I can’t wait to get my hands on a black and brown pair. Nice to see not only great shoes for Minimalist aficionado’s, but also something that goes against the throw away consumerist attitude manufacturers seem to have embraced. Well done, Mountain…
I would not buy these at $300, but if he set the price point at the same level as the Vivobarefoot Ra, then I would buy them immediately.
MUST get these to market, ASAP. Wear suit everyday. I spend the first two hours of everyday training in VFFs or MTGs, then spend the rest of the day in stiff stacked heel leather dress shoes. Hate it! Bring us the PriPros!!!
For my work, they aren’t dressy enough. They look too much like something people wear that they think is dressy, but is only about 85% there. I love this idea, and if the quality was there, and the look was classy, then I’d definitely pay a premium to have a shoe that’s better for my body and feet.
Question: Whould you pay $300 for Primal shoes?
Answer: Would a parapalegic pay for a wheel chair? Would a cop pay for a bullet proof vest?
People that are seeking comfort or avoiding pain at work will consider cost as one of the last factors. First priority is a tie between pain avoidance and style. Second priority is comfort. 3rd priority is price.
Mountain you have GLOBAL support, keep it going !!!
These shoes are very exciting and I would buy a pair today if I could. Glad to see that Mountain has taken a concept to reality. Shoes are classy and a perfect solution to my wearing black Tom’s around my office in order to enjoy a zero drop in my footwear.
Just back from a weeks holiday wearing barefoot merrils or actually going bare foot for the whole week. 3hrs in my suit and appropriate dress/business shoes and I was off to local mall shoe shops in desperation. Now back in office and google to the rescue. Forget the price can you send me a pair of black prototypes immediately. Even in New Zealand i cant get away with barefeet in a business suit. If you need an agent in a tiny little country like New Zealand let me know!!!
I like the concept, but I can no way justify the cost. I have never spent more than $100 on any shoe. I live in the midwest where $300 is a huge sum of money for shoes. Maybe $300 is a good price in New York, or California but where I live that’s really expensive. I hope you do well, but I will not be a customer.
I’m looking forward to when the primal is available, but for now I recommend these three flexible dress shoes, with a nice size toebox:
-For a captoe oxford, check out the Bostonian Wenham wide.
-For a brown loafer with zero heal drop, look up the Patagonia Pau.
-For a black loafer, go with the Rockport Washington Square Venetian wide.
and
-The Spenco Comfort Insoles Flat lowers the heal drop and increases the toebox for any shoe
Bullshit. These aren’t even close to the first ‘barefoot-style dress shoes’. A few years ago J. Shoes made a pair of full dress shoes – much dressier than these – with no heal and a wide toebox, which I would argue is essential to ‘barefoot dress shoes’. I have a pair. They rule, and I wish I’d bought a few more in multiple colors. Needless to say, it’s nearly impossible to find really dressy shoes that are barefoot-ish and/or without heels. Camper also makes some, but they’re not dressy enough, in my opinion. I would do more research before making such claims.
Hey BDog, settledown there cha cha. Mountain claims his shoes are “the first men’s professional dress shoe that is a “barefoot shoe” in disguise.” not the first barefoot shoe ever. You might want to actually read what he says, before going off half cocked. Nevermind, i’m sure this isn’t the first time you’ve done it. Go ahead and shoot your mouth off, it’s probably your MO.
This is great. I hope in the future you will come up with same dress shoes with a little more ankle on them. If that’s this year I will buy two pairs, no doubt.
Hey BDog,
Are these the J shoes you are referring to?
http://www.shopjshoes.com/mens-c1/shoes-c3/mens-black-leather-brogues-c5006-p899
These shoes look nothing dressy.
Nearing the end of a minimalist foot summer of jacked toes and legs, and great foot health, I came specifically to this site to find something I can wear in professional situations that would feel great on my newly empowered feet. I am very sad to see that the price is so beyond this minimum wage college musician. I hope this is the beginning of a revolution in professional footwear, and I hope this small business venture goes to many wonderful places. and when it does, and I can get these shoes, you can count on my purchase.
I’m very impressed with your presentation. All you have done and to keep your products “made in the USA”.
I can only give you, well done and I do hope you can get this product off and running.
1) Increase the number of eyelet rows from 5 to 6. This works better with straight-bar lacing. Also, as absurd as it sounds, I’ve had interviewers specifically say that they were glad my shoes had 6 rows of eyelets instead of 5.
2) Use full grain instead of corrected leather. To justify a high cost, these shoes need to last a while.
3) In terms of minor details, basically make the shoe as close to the Allen Edmond Park Avenue while still being biomechanically sound. There’s not much competition in terms of minimalist footwear for work. The thing that will prevent people from buying these are cost/value and meeting the standards of fashion snobs that require the rest of us to wear idiotic crap.